Schoeps MK 41 for exteriors?

[Adam Douglass]

I've seen a few people here mention that they use a Schoeps MK 41 for exteriors as well as interiors. I have a couple of questions about that:

1. What do you use for wind protection?

2. Do you only use the Schoeps for *quiet* exterior locations, or do you use it everywhere?

[Jeff Wexler]

We have several windscreens that we use with the Schoeps on exteriors. For light wind we use a Schoeps windscreen that is a cage-type with a furry cover over it (I will look for the exact model if you need it). Heavier wind we use either a modified K-Tek zeppelin-style windscreen or one of the custom windscreens that Don Coufal designed and built. In the past we used a custom fabricated modified Electro-Voice "football" style windscreen (but these have long since sort of fallen apart and we haven't built any new ones.

The Schoeps part no. for the windscreen we use in light wind is: W 20 R1

[bigmaho]

My Schoeps MK41's are my thrid choice for exteriors.  First is the Schoeps CMIT shotgun, 2nd is the Sennhieser MKH50 and 3rd is the MK41/CMC6 combo.  Both the CMIT and Senn 50 have better reach outdoors, especially in noisy urban environments.  The 41 does work rather well, and I'll often use it outdoors in scenes where I need numerous microphones or if it's a scene that plays both indoors and out in a continuous take. 

Best,

Billy

I've seen a few people here mention that they use a Schoeps MK 41 for exteriors as well as interiors. I have a couple of questions about that:

1. What do you use for wind protection?

2. Do you only use the Schoeps for *quiet* exterior locations, or do you use it everywhere?

[RPSharman]

I, too, use my MKH50 outside regularly.  Bought a Rycote Zeppelin kit for it last year and have been kicking myself ever since for not buying it years ago.  Until then I had been using a Softie, which really does not good in anything other than a light wind.

I also worked for a mixer before I moved up who kept several small Rycote Zeppelins for housing his CMC/MK41s.  At the time he had just bought a CMIT and a Rycote Zepp for it, so we used that quite a bit too.  I liked them both.

Robert

[Alan H. Chang]

I use a Schoeps MK41 as first priority in EXT shots.  Close up sounds like a close-up shot, Wide sounds like a wide.  I bring out my 2nd Schoeps MK41 when double boom is necessary.  When the weather sucks under the same shooting conditions, I bring out my Audio-Technica 4053a.  Love my MK41s.  No EQ necessary at 3'.

Next depends on a couple of scenarios.  The Audio-Technica 4073a comes out of the bag when the shooting environment is quiet on EXT shots, or non-reverberent during INT shots with wide/tall space and ceilings.  The 4073a is also worked during rainy and wet/humid conditions.  I've sold my 416 for the 4073a because it sounds better off-axis, on-axis, most intimate with whispers, and works almost the same in harsh environments.  Only downside is HOT sensitivity.  Followed by the Sanken CS3e for very noisy EXT shots or a genny closeby.  Finally the MKH70 for some long shots with decent BG noise.  It's long at 16 inches, but sounds beautiful.  Trusty MKH70.

[ProSound]

Schoeps CMIT shotgun for me always for EXT unless it is raining them my trusty MKH 416

[studiomprd]

different folks have different preferences.  it is up to you to decide what you like.

[John Blankenship]

While I totally concur with Rich about the value of conducting one's own mic tests, I disagree with the "devolved" comment in his post.

One of the greatest benefits of this forum is the opportunity to compare notes with other sound mixers by engaging in discussions about equipment likes and dislikes, operating procedures, cart setups, and numerous other personal approaches and discoveries.

There is much more to be gained from discussion -- even discussion flavored with strong personal preferences -- than "Call the manufacturer," and "Do your own tests."

Make no mistake, I believe one should ALSO do their own tests.

John Blankenship, CAS

[old school]

As a boom op years ago, and a mixer for the last 20+, I have used the Shoeps 41 both interior and exterior to record actors, ambience, and sfx. It is a great mic t my ears, but I always choose a mic for what the variables of a shots need to get the best sound I can. I use a 70 or 60 outside, even inside at times. I use dynamics when I want what they have to offer. Basically I think it is good to think about the mic choice and not follow some self imposed rule. 9 out of 10 times I follow what I know to be tried n true, but I try different things when I can. Just to see/hear the difference.

CrewC

[martijn scholte]

i have a little clip online here exterior in nepal

#11 Helena Stromberg

what i like about the cmc6mk41 is the small windscreen (i try to carry-on al my stuff when flying)

and having a big fragile rycote is not my windscreen of choice then

cheers

martijn

[Noah Timan]

I've seen a few people here mention that they use a Schoeps MK 41 for exteriors as well as interiors. I have a couple of questions about that:

1. What do you use for wind protection?

Various Rycote contraptions, depending upon the intensity of the wind.  I also have a couple of the cage type that Jeff mentioned.

2. Do you only use the Schoeps for *quiet* exterior locations, or do you use it everywhere?

The former.  I seldom use it outside unless I'm in a rural environment of some sort.

[RPSharman]

I have found that in a noisy urban environment, where the noise seems to come from everywhere, that a short mic (up close) can yield better results than a longer mic.  It seems that many folks here agree that a short mic (be it the MK41 or the MKH50) can be an excellent choice, although should not be your only choice.

I have used my Rycote Zeppelin kit in some very windy environments, and have not had any wind problems, and have not found the sound to be "colored" in a way that is objectionable.

Robert

[old school]

Every situation is different. I like to have options to deal with those that come my way. I don't need every mic made, but I want some choices. I could live w only 3 or 4 Schoeps. We all used to live w only a 415 n 815 in the old days. As time goes by I think all sound mixers should grow their mic options. There is no right or wrong if it sounds like it looks and you get paid. I have tried most of them, even used this one from Chamberlain Sound. The Reservoir Tip. It has it's place when you work in water. Like RVD, I would test them all and see/hear what you like best. Good luck.

CrewC

     

[studiomprd]

We can get that cap made for you...

[John Blankenship]

I apologize John B if you feel that my "devolved" comment, in regard to the thread was unwarranted, but I politely disagree with you.  The original OP's "topic" was/is "Schoeps MK41 for exteriors?" thus I felt he was asking for responses to that topic and by its nature microphone, specifically.  I didn't think the "topic" was "What's Your Favorite Microphone for Exteriors?" which would also be an appropriate topic to have and discuss.

...

I guess I have to go and have a hat made now......

Thanks for clarifying your position. 

Where you seem particularly sensitive to topics veering off-subject, I'm particularly sensitive to comments that may tend to discourage discussion rather than foster it.  Where you read some follow-ups as "my favorite mic for exteriors" I read them as "here's my favorite mic for exteriors and why I prefer it over Schoeps for that application," which I feel serves to further inform the original poster and all who are looking in.  Seeing it this way I didn't feel it went very far off-topic.

We both have a little different view of the same thing... no "rights," no "wrongs," just different.

I wasn't attempting to equate your comments to incessant recitations of "C.T.M.," other than I felt they both can be interpreted in a manner that might serve to stifle discussion.  That was my point.  I hope I didn't "overmake" the point; it was not intended as an attack, just a viewpoint.  And, as I stated, I fully concur with your advice to run lots of tests.

BTW:  Your last line gave me my "laugh of the day" -- thanks.

Back to the topic... My preference is usually for a more directional mic for exteriors, but I think I'll revisit my choices after reading some of the comments and reasoning here.  My main concern is that I often encounter situations where the mic can't live close enough that I think a Schoeps would be the best choice.  In the situations where I have deemed it appropriate for exteriors, the Schoeps has really shined.

John Blankenship, CAS

[Jimmy Tuffrey]

I have found that in a noisy urban environment, where the noise seems to come from everywhere, that a short mic (up close) can yield better results than a longer mic.  It seems that many folks here agree that a short mic (be it the MK41 or the MKH50) can be an excellent choice, although should not be your only choice.

Robert

This rings true in my experience when using an mkh60 in urban parks with near by roads all the way around. Particularly the noise seems to come from everywhere bit.

[Adam Douglass]

I apologize John B if you feel that my "devolved" comment, in regard to the thread was unwarranted, but I politely disagree with you.  The original OP's "topic" was/is "Schoeps MK41 for exteriors?" thus I felt he was asking for responses to that topic and by its nature microphone, specifically.  I didn't think the "topic" was "What's Your Favorite Microphone for Exteriors?" which would also be an appropriate topic to have and discuss.

It's true, I was really just asking about the Schoeps, rather than about people's favorite exterior mics. Still, I'm always interested to hear what mics people like to use for various situations, even if it is off-topic.

I have found that in a noisy urban environment, where the noise seems to come from everywhere, that a short mic (up close) can yield better results than a longer mic.

I find this very interesting. It seems counter-intuitive, but I know from experience that 'counter-intuitive' is not the same as 'wrong'. Has anyone else found that short mics work better than long mics in this scenario?

Another question: for those of you who use short mics (Schoeps/MKH-50/whatever) most of the time, at what point will you switch to a shotgun (i.e., how many feet of headroom, what level of background noise, etc.)?

[studiomprd]

" at what point will you switch to a shotgun "

15.46"

37.38 dBspl A-weighted

[Noah Timan]

I find this very interesting. It seems counter-intuitive, but I know from experience that 'counter-intuitive' is not the same as 'wrong'. Has anyone else found that short mics work better than long mics in this scenario?

Not me.  Of course, every situation is slightly different and there is rarely a one-size-fits-all answer for which mic is best to use in X scenario.  Location acoustics, types of noise to combat, and what kind of voice you'll be recording will all play a part.

Another question: for those of you who use short mics (Schoeps/MKH-50/whatever) most of the time, at what point will you switch to a shotgun (i.e., how many feet of headroom, what level of background noise, etc.)?

When the voice either starts failing to punch through the background noise, or otherwise fails to sound rich.

[John Blankenship]

" at what point will you switch to a shotgun "

15.46"

Is that from the capsule or the end of the mic?  Are you including the fuzzy in that computation?  What if the windscreen is dented?

JB

[studiomprd]

yes, yes, and well, crap happens, so I <read my hat> to get it repaired!

[RadoStefanov]

Is this the Rycote zepelin you are talking about?

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=1046

and

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=1048

?

I, too, use my MKH50 outside regularly.  Bought a Rycote Zeppelin kit for it last year and have been kicking myself ever since for not buying it years ago.  Until then I had been using a Softie, which really does not good in anything other than a light wind.

I also worked for a mixer before I moved up who kept several small Rycote Zeppelins for housing his CMC/MK41s.  At the time he had just bought a CMIT and a Rycote Zepp for it, so we used that quite a bit too.  I liked them both.

Robert

[Marc Wielage]

Another question: for those of you who use short mics (Schoeps/MKH-50/whatever) most of the time, at what point will you switch to a shotgun (i.e., how many feet of headroom, what level of background noise, etc.)?

Man, I just punt! 

I do think using a shotgun indoors is dicey, and I start hearing too much of that interference-tube stuff with reflections. The hypers are also much better off-axis and sound more natural to me indoors.

But I generally do believe in going with a shotgun for exteriors. The question is which one, and I think that's dictated more by the environment than anything else, plus a gut feeling. Coming from a TV post background, my inclination is to back the actors up with a wireless lav when I can for isos, but that's a personal choice (and relating to time & budget).

My last boom op told me, "hey, it's like picking the right golf club on the course!" I don't play golf, but I get the analogy.

--Marc W.

[RPSharman]

Is this the Rycote zepelin you are talking about?

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=1046

and

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=1048

?

No... the extended ball gag (no giggling please) is for the 8050.  Rycote makes a zeppelin for the MKH50.  It is similar, but a bit larger.

[Adam Douglass]

" at what point will you switch to a shotgun "

15.46"

37.38 dBspl A-weighted

I'm assuming that's sarcasm. I guess it was kind of a stupid question. I'm well aware that it's pointless to set hard-and-fast rules about that sort of thing; I was just looking for general guidelines, but I guess it's more of a gut thing for the most part.