old school Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 When I agree to do a job, I am hired to do the sound recording for a given project. A simple concept most would say, but what obligation do I have to be filmed doing my job as a part of another media project related to my gig or used at some point in time in ways not yet determined or thought up? What side of the camera am I on? What side is the important one? The reason I ask this is the ever present "behind the scene's crew" shooting us shoot the commercial. It used to be this happened w name talent Super Bowl type spots every now and again. That was then. Now these mostly nice folks are shooting us shoot on many mundane everyday spots. Maybe 50% of the jobs I do have these nice people shooting us, the talent, and Agency or Client, and who knows what. We are always asked to sign a release that only a fool would sign if they read it. Most of course sign never even reading them. What the hell? No big deal. Might even get on TV.... I won't sign one. I don't see the plus side for me. I don't feel being on camera is my strength or talent. I am there to record the sound for the project at hand. Am I wrong? Maybe on a film or TV show I would if I thought it would attract more viewers, but a commercial? I'm attaching a standard release, but a few I have refused to sign are longer and more absurd. CrewC CREW_RELEASE.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 well, at least they are getting releases... I find it easy to deal with: "I'm SAG and AFTRA". done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 So what happens when you refuse to sign it? I assume the job goes on and the BTS guys shoot whatever anyhow? Is there any pushback over this? Have you found that that footage (of crew people, not of Famous People) ever gets used in other than a home movie the prod co + agency makes for the client? In my experience (more limited than yours) they could care less about me--they concentrate on the client and agency stars, the director, the actors, maybe the DP, and maybe the cute female PAs, as well as any Big Hardware (Akela, any pyro or car stuff etc). I guess I think it doesn't matter that much, as long as they don't sneak any personal liability crap in there (wouldn't put it past them). I like just telling them that you are SAG....that should scare them off good! phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I have seen lots of behind the scenes footage with some crew blurred and some not. I don't think anyone really cares if you sign it or not. On my first ever movie ("Encino Man" shot in 1990), the crew was asked to sign a release as Pauly Shore was still producing his show and both his crew and Disney folks wanted to be able shoot at will. I recall the key grip, or maybe dolly grip, refusing to sign. Nobody seemed to care then, and I expect they don't really care now, especially since blur technology is so easy. I, on the other hand, can't even pass a mirror without being horribly distracted. It's why I don't have glossy screens on my monitors. So any opportunity to grace the masses with my beauty is ok with me. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted October 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 I have never had anyone say a word to me about not signing it other than the poor PA whose task it is to get everyone's signature. I tell them to have the PM talk to me if there is an issue. My guess is the vast majority of the footage doesn't get used now or ever, but it could be. That's my only point really. Do you want to sign away the rights to your image forever, throughout time and space across the universe and have no say in the matter because you signed this release? Same goes for safety meetings. If they don't hold one than I won't sign that they did. I will sign any none disclosure agreement the company wants. That's legit to me. Just wondering what others think. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 The form that bothered me the most was that supplied by MTV, "the USIS Background Screening Release Form", which gives them the right to see if you have any "Criminal history, drug offenses, violence and or sex offender reports." If there was a mistake on any database -- if would be a hell of lot worse than mistakenly being on the "No Fly List". I was day playing and should have refused to fill out the form, but foolishly did any ways. About two months later, I had totally forgotten about it and received a copy of their results - a ten page report - thankfully with "No Record Found". They looked for Misdemeanors, and Felonies, in L.A. County, and Honolulu, HI, where I had worked on "LOST". They did a "National Criminal Search" "Sex Offender Search - TOPS". It was down right scary and as I said it came out clean -- but I learned my lesson to not help the HR Departments in there own self-protective agenda. It wasn't like I was trying to work for the Federal Government, FBI, or the CIA - it was just a stinkin' day on a TV series! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 " non disclosure agreement " no problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted November 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Random occurrence but true. My oldest son is on a BTS crew he works w and they are on my gig. Still not signing;~) CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted November 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 @ Richard L. Your example is scary. How did it get to this. I think this kind of back ground check is the consequence of corporate over reach and bean counters adding layers of denial and responsibility for what they do. I would advise all to read something and think about it before you sign it. The days of a handshake n honor among thieves is long gone. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 @ Richard L. Your example is scary. How did it get to this. I think this kind of back ground check is the consequence of corporate over reach and bean counters adding layers of denial and responsibility for what they do. I would advise all to read something and think about it before you sign it. The days of a handshake n honor among thieves is long gone. CrewC Well, they still want you to show up on some location w/ a van full of gear in response to a phone call, often from someone you've never met nor heard of before, w/ no contract etc etc, maybe an emailed insurance cert....... phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Haggerty Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 My favorite was a deal memo they wanted me to sign for a pilot. On the last page was a paragraph which said I and and my family waive the right to sue if I am killed or injured on the job by an incident caused by production "either accidental or intentional" The fact that this was a show about people learning how to fly airplanes gave this some extra flavor. I was supposed to be in one of the planes, tho as it happened there was no room for me so I just dropped the bag in the backseat (phew) I refused to sign, of course. Lots of others did sign tho, not reading what it was. I asked the producer if he was planning to have the crew killed intentionally. He laughed. Said he hadn't read the whole deal memo either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 On the last page was a paragraph which said I and and my family waive the right to sue if I am killed or injured on the job by an incident caused by production "either accidental or intentional." I'm not a lawyer (though I "play one" on TV), but I don't think this will hold up in court. If somebody gave me a deal memo like this, I'd just cross this line out, initial it, then sign it at the end. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 I'm not a lawyer (though I "play one" on TV), but I don't think this will hold up in court. If somebody gave me a deal memo like this, I'd just cross this line out, initial it, then sign it at the end. I agree with Marc. I don't believe you can indemnify against negligence. John B., CAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 The prod co for a spot I worked on months ago just emailed me one of those "all rights all the time in perpetuity to whoever we want to assign the rights to blah blah blah" releases. I didn't see anyone signing one of these on the day, although there was a BTS guy running around. I'm sure this is the same release Crew mentioned, prob all the LA co.s use it. An email quickly went around the local folks who worked that day, who uniformly find the release ridiculous. As a joke I emailed back and said that while I wouldn't GIVE them the rights to my image, works etc etc etc forever, that those rights were FOR SALE--have their attorneys contact me about a price etc.. They emailed back asking for a PICTURE of me so they could edit me out of their video. I.......don't think so..... These guys seriously need to stop their legal dept.'s haymaking on this issue and make a new release that just asks if they can use your image from that day on that job for a BTS video/blog etc about that day and that job ONLY. Or just chill with the legal crap already and make your home movie like they used to..... phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 hold out for a good rate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 To be fair, however, when shooting a television show, a production company who hires us is often caught in the middle. In many cases, the show they're making is on contract to one of the cable or broadcast networks -- or they're hoping to sell it to one of the cable or broadcast networks -- and the network has stiff requirements about releases and other paperwork. If the production company doesn't furnish all the required paperwork, the show, which represents a lot of work and investment, can be rejected. Legally, and I'm not a lawyer, but speak from what I think I've learned (could be questionable), if a contract is written too broadly, it could be thrown out. Ideally for the production company, the release should fully cover any reasonable use in connection with the production it relates to, but not be an "I own you forever and whatever," which would probably not pass legal muster. Either too little or too much can be a dangerous thing. Many lawyers write contracts that rely a lot on ignorance (including their own). In regard to the MTV background check that Richard mentioned, MTV called me recently about a gig in my area and mentioned the same thing. Their justification was that the show involved working with minors. I never gave them a clear "yes, I'll sign anything you shove in front of me," but was put on hold for the days. A couple of weeks before the gig they canceled my hold and said they were bringing their own mixer with them. Normally, that costs the company a whole lot more than a local hire, but given the cost of a background check, they may be money ahead. Even though I've held a very high security clearance and have confidence in my total purity <g>, that canceled hold didn't upset me. John B., CAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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