Cinela Cosi or Pianissimo?

[rmac]

I have Schoeps CMC mics that I use for mono and AB Spaced stereo recording. For wind protection, including outdoors in a light breeze, I have two Cinela OSIX 2/Léonard balls with fur. I am considering two Cosi or two Pianissimo for outdoor use. Right now, I can afford one or the other, not both. I would much appreciate the views of people who have used these windshields.

 

The question is whether I should go from the Léo to the Cosi or go straight from the Léo to the Pianissimo. Put differently, is there so much overlap between the Léo and the Cosi, and the Cosi and the Pianissimo, that it would be sound to bypass the Cosi. I’m skeptical of the fact that the Cosi has no fabric between the skeleton and the fur. It appears to be a larger Léo with fur, but with no fabric layer. I also don’t like the fact that the Cosi fur isn’t replaceable. I'm not concerned about the fact that the Pianissimo is physically larger and that the Cosi has the advantage of smaller size. For the time being, at least, I can live with that.

 

The Pianissimo should give me better wind protection than the Cosi. The question is, at what sonic cost? From a sound perspective, is the Cosi notably better than a Pianissimo?

 

I’ve watched this Cinela video several times, but it hasn’t resolved the question for me, and while I’m able to see the Cosi and Pianissimo windshields, I’m not able to test them:

 

 

 

 

[inspire]

It would be nice to try and test both of them. I have Rycote Stuff, not so serious.

[DanieldH]

There are at least 3 types of outer surfaces for the Cosi. Fabric, short felty fur and medium long fur. This may not be advertised on the website, but fabric and felty are mentioned in the video.

I have the felty for an 8060, a miniCMIT and in the future possibly a MKH50. It is an excellent tool for booming if low winds allow it (weight, shadow profile, handling noise). I'd doubt that the medium fur version allows significantly more wind. If there is even medium wind you'd want a piani or even something bigger. 

Piani has a good raincover. Bubblebee also offers a fur for the Piani (and Rycote modular WS 3/4) that appears to be more wind effective than any Cinela fur and is easier to apply/remove. If you only intend to use it on tripod-like situations (that is my assuption) when you don't need a high quality suspension system a Rycote modular WS or something cheap and similar in size) plus optionally a Bubblebee jacket would cost significantly less (even though I have a lot more sympathy for Cinela than for Rycote). 

[rmac]

18 hours ago, DanieldH said:

There are at least 3 types of outer surfaces for the Cosi. Fabric, short felty fur and medium long fur. This may not be advertised on the website, but fabric and felty are mentioned in the video.

I have the felty for an 8060, a miniCMIT and in the future possibly a MKH50. It is an excellent tool for booming if low winds allow it (weight, shadow profile, handling noise). I'd doubt that the medium fur version allows significantly more wind. If there is even medium wind you'd want a piani or even something bigger. 

Piani has a good raincover. Bubblebee also offers a fur for the Piani (and Rycote modular WS 3/4) that appears to be more wind effective than any Cinela fur and is easier to apply/remove. If you only intend to use it on tripod-like situations (that is my assuption) when you don't need a high quality suspension system a Rycote modular WS or something cheap and similar in size) plus optionally a Bubblebee jacket would cost significantly less (even though I have a lot more sympathy for Cinela than for Rycote). 

 

That’s very helpful. I plan to use this on both a boom pole and a tripod. I have a Rycote WS and could purchase a second. I like the two Léos that I have and the question is whether I stick with Cinela for stronger protection.

 

I didn’t mention the fabric version of the Cosi because of what Cinela says about it. The emphasis is in the original:

Quote

All COSI cages are available in a black fabric finish, for exclusive indoor use. Compared to the standard fur version, the apparent volume is reduced and the wind resistance is limited but the acoustic transparency is improved. 

 

A Cinela .pdf says this about the medium fur version:

Quote

Fur (medium pile length) is NOT removable. It has no other fabric or layer under it. Very good compromise for indoor/outdoor use.

 

[EDIT re the following: In the next post, Daniel clarifies that he has the “standard” medium version shown in the top row of the photo.] Thanks for explaining the felty/short fur version that you have. I gather that the medium fur and fabric versions of the Cosi are shown in this Cinela photo. I don’t see any discussion about the felty/short fur version. Good to learn about it.

 

 

 

The Cinela video below, starting at 3:07, implies that the Cosi with medium fur provides decent wind protection but of course not on the level of the Pianissimo. As someone who uses the felty/short fur version, what’s your view? Could I ask what you mean by medium wind when you say "If there is even medium wind you'd want a piani or even something bigger." 

 

 

 

[DanieldH]

The Cosi I have ist the standard one that is pictured everywhere. I guess from your upper quote Cinela calls that medium pile length. I called it felty because it is a bit felty out of the factory, compared to longer fur. 

The only one with longer fur I've ever seen was on Monday at my dealer when I checked the MKH50 holder. Maybe this is a new thing, demo unit or just a different "batch". 

The Cosi is very nice on the boom for before mentioned reasons. As THE standard outdoor tool it is not effective enough but only in mildly windy situations, don't quote me in Bft, IIRC the lab video demonstrates it. It is more a convienience alternative to a bigger WS. 

1 hour ago, rmac said:

Could I ask what you mean by medium wind when you say "If there is even medium wind you'd want a piani or even something bigger." 

I mean the exact same thing as Cinela with "decent wind protection". Just less public relations speak. It is limited. 

IMHO Cinela makes superior products to Rycote (to a higher price).

Get the Piani 1st, ideally with the raincover and Bubblebee fur, so you have the best there is against the elements. get a Cosi, when you saved more money to have a more sleak option. 

I rarely use a cardioid supercardioid outdoors and I don't know if you mainly record sound for video and a camera is around.  

[rmac]

18 minutes ago, DanieldH said:

The Cosi is very nice on the boom for before mentioned reasons. As THE standard outdoor tool it is not effective enough but only in mildly windy situations, don't quote me in Bft, IIRC the lab video demonstrates it. It is more a convienience alternative to a bigger WS. 

I mean the exact same thing as Cinela with "decent wind protection". Just less public relations speak. It is limited. 

IMHO Cinela makes superior products to Rycote (to a higher price).

Get the Piani 1st, ideally with the raincover and Bubblebee fur, so you have the best there is against the elements. get a Cosi, when you saved more money to have a more sleak option. 

 

Thanks very much, you’ve really helped me understand where the Cosi fits.

 

[Derek H]

I’ve used both a bunch mostly with the CMIT and I would agree the Cosi is great for light wind days or even decent breeze but if there’s serious wind you need a full blimp. 
 

I also agree that if you get the full pianissimo you should skip Cinela’s fur and try the bubblebee offering. While I haven’t tried the new bubblebee fur covers myself I can say that the thickest Cinela fur kills a lot of presence and made dialog sound dull. If you’re using mics with presence boost maybe you can work around it but I think there must be better more transparent furs available. 
 

Last thought.. a Schoeps CMC is kind of small inside a pianissimo and I don’t think you can reconfigure it to scoot it forward like you can in a Rycote so for booming dialog you’ll always be losing a couple inches distance compared to other products. Sometimes that makes all the difference outside. 

[inspire]

Cinela Cosi and Pianissimo - how comfortable are they to attach to the microphone? I have the Schoeps MiniCMIT GR with The product Rycote Softie-Lite Kit 21 and it fits together very easily and comfortably.
When I look at pictures, I sometimes wonder if assembling this kit with the microphone is conveniently solved? There is no reason to doubt, but since I have no experience, I ask.

[Derek H]

It’s fine. Not as simple as using a Rycote but there’s no comparison with wind and shock mount performance. 
 

The pianissimo has gotten easier to use than the older piano since they did away with the annoying rubber O-rings that were used to hold the thing together  I hated those o-rings and most of them are lost now. 

[inspire]

Thanks for the confirmation.

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

Yeah, the Pianissimo fur is seriously thick.  I mostly just use the skin without the fur unless it is seriously windy.  Didn't know about the Bubblebee fur ... I'll have to look for that.

 

[Dejan Ceko]

The way I use it is :

Drama / Narrative  - COSI Fabric (interior) , Pianissimo (exterior ) . 

RnG / Docu / Corpo - E-OSIX + THE SPACER BUBBLE kit .

 

Regards,

Dejan.

[Jim Rillie]

8 hours ago, Derek H said:

It’s fine. Not as simple as using a Rycote but there’s no comparison with wind and shock mount performance. 
 

The pianissimo has gotten easier to use than the older piano since they did away with the annoying rubber O-rings that were used to hold the thing together  I hated those o-rings and most of them are lost now. 

I think those o rings were for isolation - the upper part sit on the rings so the  spacers don't touch each other

[rmac]

Radius Windshields posted this to its Facebook Group on December 4th. The post includes three photos and a video showing the fur being applied to the fabric Cosi. You have to apply to join the Radius group, but Radius welcomes new members.

 

We recently had a pretty challenging request come in to create a pattern for a fur windcover for the smooth fabric Cinela Cosi… looking at it, we genuinely didn’t have a clue how we were going to achieve it. But Donna (the star that she is) worked over the last 2 weeks to perfect this pattern and it fits like a glove! 
Thanks [name] for challenging us here 😅 this certainly was the hardest project we’ve had so far! 
If anyone’s in need of one, just let us know. We’re not sure if we will list it as an official product, but if the demand is there - we might 😄
We can do short black, short grey and long grey fur

[Derek H]

16 hours ago, Jim Rillie said:

I think those o rings were for isolation - the upper part sit on the rings so the  spacers don't touch each other

not really sure what you mean. I was referring to the older design with the full size piano that required you to stretch rubber bands (o-rings) around to connect the top and bottom shells. Annoying. Especially if you’re trying to be quick. 
 

The new design is much easier you just press the top and bottom together with no parts to lose.