small cheap and cheap tascam dr-100 or zoom 4hn?

[martijn scholte]

hi all

i am looking for a small recorder (i already own a 744t)

i am told from i guy i buy from the tascam has better level knobs.

i would like to record from a shotgun mic and a wireless at the same time both iso

any thoughts? price is no issue. since they both are very cheap

thanks in advance.

martijn

[Harris K]

I prefer the tascam, though I couldn't exactly say why. I think the file structure and file naming was less convoluted, though I'm not positive. The pres were surprisingly quiet.

[studiomprd]

" tascam has better level knobs. "

better than the SD ??

of course "better knobs" is subjective , but in what way??

[Christian Spaeth]

I'd go with the Tascam. If nothing else, it's more robust.

[studiomprd]

and I prefer the Marantz (Denon)!!

[Christian Spaeth]

robast :-)

i will go with the zoom , it is 4 tracks

...including 2 usually unsusable tracks (internals)

to me it's either internals (fx, ambience) or externals, I couldn't imagine a film/video situation where all four should be useful.

[Q]

H4n has a mini plug that allows you to bypass the built-in mics, so yes you can record 4 external tracks at once.  I have hooked up 2 302s to a H4n, one through the mini jack and one through the xlr plugs.

[Petros Kolyvas]

H4n has a mini plug that allows you to bypass the built-in mics, so yes you can record 4 external tracks at once.  I have hooked up 2 302s to a H4n, one through the mini jack and one through the xlr plugs.

I realize this is taking the thread further off-topic, but...

What cable did you use?

In my case it would be XLR-F(2) to 1/8" TRS. I wonder how I should wire that puppy. If I had to guess I'd say XLR (left) hot to Tip, XLR (right) hot to Ring, XLR shields (ground) combined to sleeve and just tape off the cold wires?

Thanks.

[Q]

Petros,

I built a cable, mix out of the 302 (TA3f?) to mini 1/8.  Don't remember the details right now, and I don't have it with me to look at it.

I also experimented with a mini 1/8 to mini 1/8, tape out of the 302 to H4n mini jack.  I think that one will need some attenuation to work properly, but haven't gone farther with it.

[Eric Toline]

I realize this is taking the thread further off-topic, but...

What cable did you use?

In my case it would be XLR-F(2) to 1/8" TRS. I wonder how I should wire that puppy. If I had to guess I'd say XLR (left) hot to Tip, XLR (right) hot to Ring, XLR shields (ground) combined to sleeve and just tape off the cold wires?

Thanks.

You need to make the connections unbalanced. In your case here's the best way to do it. In the XLR you have to jump/connect pin one to pin three. That connection/wire goes to the shield in the 3.5mm TRS plug. As you have correctly said the Left channel feed from pin 2 in the XLR goes to the tip and the Right channel feed goes to the ring. Combining the grounds from both XLR's to the sleeve in the 3.5 mm TRS plug is correct.

Eric

[Rick Reineke]

For unbalanced connections from the SD 302's XLR output, it's recommended, XLR pin-3 be floated. 

And yes, it's often necessary to attenuate the XLR output level when feeding unbalanced line inputs, particularly the Zoom products, in which the analog input stage is easily over-driven. (and it ain't warm & fuzzy pleasant sounding)

BTW: The 302's Tape-out (TA-3) is

Pin-1= Common Ground /Shield/Sleeve 

Pin-2= Left  ( to 1/8" TRS Tip)

Pin-3= Right (to 1/8" TRS Ring)

I should also wish to note, the TA-3's pin configuration differs from that of an 3-pin XLR. Pin-2 is at the bottom of a TA3..  yes, I made that mistake.

[Christian Spaeth]

no shit :-)

i was more happy mr Spaeth will try to read the manual first .

okay Oleg you so got me on that one... ashes on my head

[Petros Kolyvas]

Eric and Rick,

Thank you so much for your help!

I have used the H4n as a backup recorder and, like Christan (ashes on my head too) hadn't realized that I could use the "internal" 3.5mm input during 4TR mode on the H4n to record ISOs from, in my case, the 552 direct outs which are line, -10, mic switchable.

As for the over-level issue, I usually carry around a bunch of inline-pads with me anyway, so hopefully a 15-20-25 switchable pad would be enough - and certainly nothing a little careful testing can't remedy such that it becomes second nature.

[Petros Kolyvas]

While the build quality isn't the best, I was using the H4n as a "disposable" field recorder to capture sounds of me cycling - also using a bastardized rycote invision video mount. Anyway, I dropped the unit while trying to "mount" it and it bent one of the internal mics just enough so that it wouldn't lock into place when switching from 90 degrees to 120 degrees.

I was surprised how easy it was to open the unit up and it didn't take much to repair it. It works. I also feel like it's really "mine" now.

Oh, I did have to tape it up to make sure the buttons (and even the microphones) didn't rattle audibly while riding over Montreal's wonderfully flat, even, pot-hole-less asphalt surfaces.

There are some shocks even the lyres can't handle!

[Jim Feeley]

While the build quality isn't the best, I was using the H4n as a "disposable" field recorder to capture sounds of me cycling - also using a bastardized rycote invision video mount.

Clever use of the invision mount... However, I am a bit concerned about a cyclocross bike that's both clean and has a waterbottle cage... What's up with that?

Jim

[Petros Kolyvas]

Clever use of the invision mount... However, I am a bit concerned about a cyclocross bike that's both clean and has a waterbottle cage... What's up with that?

Jim

I had a lot of fun trying to get the recorder isolated enough. I should have documented all the failures too.

Regarding the bike itself: touché sir.

I actually use it for medium distance touring mostly - but I am kind of anal about cleaning my bikes after dirty rides.

It's a wonderful all-around bike even if I don't use it as intended; much of the cross-Canada bike trail is over old railroad bed, and remains only hard-packed gravel. The water bottle is nothing compared to the ridiculous yellow training tire it wears in the winter months.

...aw, look at me, I'm rambling again...

[Jim Feeley]

I'm just teasing. The bike looks great, and as you say, cross bikes are exceedingly practical. And cool...they're becoming the new fixie.

So I'd be interested in hearing a sample audio file from your bike mount. What's the balance of you breathing and talking, road and ambient noise, derailleurs, and so on. No really, I'm interested.

Thanks,

Jim

[martijn scholte]

thanks for all the feedback

i chose the tascam, i like the 2 power sources 1 main one backup.

2 channels is enough for what it is going to be used for.

cheers

martijn

[TomBoisseau]

From what I remember, the comments about the tascam dr-100 were not so favorable on the tappers section website. I seem to recall that battery life was rather poor.

http://taperssection.com/index.php

Also, remember, you really want a "wired remote" that allows you to start and stop a recording while giving you a visual indicator, ON THE REMOTE (LED or something), that the unit IS recording.  You don't want to have to lift the unit in and out the bag everytime you "start" and "stop".  The Zoon H4n offers this as an accessory and it works great!

That being said, I still want a "cheap" recorder that has spdif.  I'm seriously considering the Marantz PMD661, but only for cart or table top use - probably NOT for in the bag.

Tom

[Michael McQueen]

i lol'd hard at Jim's comment about the clean cross bike! i'm a bmx'er that also has a ss 29'er.

back on topic, i preferred the dr100 over the zoom because of the pot dials, but if you're running a mixer in front of it that isn't really an issue.

[RobertKennedy]

Sound and Picture magazine recently published a feature comparison of the Tascam DR-100 and the Zoom H4n.

This link requires Adobe Flash Player:

http://soundandpictureonline.com/wp-content/issues/Sound_Picture/Winter2010/index.html?pageNumber=44

Thanks,

Robert

[martijn scholte]

hi robert thanks for this link

haha just found out if you turn a page ther is a photo of me in my petrol rain poncho

[imagist]

Interesting - I was not aware that it's possible to record four tracks from four external sources.

Anyone know if COS11's, Trams, B6's etc. can be powered and used directly or adapted to use with the plug-in power mic input connector? eg. to use the Zoom as a stand alone recorder with any standard lavs to put on the whole rig on a contributor to record for several hours when a radio link is not possible for whatever reason. I had this come up recently and would be a useful possibility, I've heard of Zaxcom ZFR100's being used for this, and ZFR200's which of course are in a different league with timecode and size etc. but also around 3x the price?

thanks.

[studiomprd]

there are plenty of cheap mics that will work just fine with the cheap recorder...

[martijn scholte]

hi imagist,

yes you can. I got one of these for my sanken cos11

http://www.ambient.de/produkte/mikrofonspeis/emp/emp.html

not so cheap i have been thinking about this solution as well.

the zoom and tascam both are little bulky compared to zaxcom audio ltd lectro etc.

and no monitoring

cheers

martijn