Ho Hum, I made a cable

[Celac]

Hi All,

Attached are a few pictures showing a cable I bashed up, it was mostly "GID" (get it done) and a bit of DIY.  I needed to record 5 channels of house wireless (dialog + solo singer) and the musical cue.  My initial recce found the house mixer to be a Mackie configured for live sound (e.g., onboard effects, no direct outs) and the aux's were inaccessible due to routing issues.  The ideal thing would, I suppose, have been a split before the board but this posed two problems:  I didn't have 6 channels of split (relatively easy to solve) and, explaining why / obtaining permission to re-patch the mic inputs (much more difficult). 

Although the board lacked direct outs, like many of its ilk, it had TRS inserts on the mono channels.  The inserts were unused.  Hmm...  as long as they weren't riding the trim I would be ok (ok, as long as they weren't riding the trim and it was not set way too hot... ahem).  I have snakes, all I needed was a supply of TS - XLR male to jumper the send side of the insert to the snake and I was in business.  This is where the DIY comes in.  There are apparently very few applications for such a cable and hence little market demand to support a ready supply of 3'ers.  No matter, in the end the parts were less than the short Hosa TRS snakes that I looked at (and no Belden / Neutrik in those assys) and I knew it worked because I made (and tested) it myself.  Color coded too, just like the big boys. The little nylon 5/16 nut prevents the jack from being accidentally driven home in the insert and muting the channel. Somewhere I have seen a commercial solution to the same problem but none of the local vendors had... never mind, a little imperfecation will do. 

Hmm, that was a bit long but I wanted to say thank you to all the folks here who's help I have been silently soaking up. 

Celac

[Celac]

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[Celac]

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[peter775]

hm,

why didn't you use TRS jacks? AFIK insert patch point usually split the out and break the insert return.

I think if you use TRS and wire them propperly you can put them all the way in without the insert actually interputing the signal path of the board.

The channels are interupted because you are using TS jacks instead of TRS.

but maybe I'm wrong.

[peter775]

here's an example of a jack version but you can easily DIY that with XLRs as well

http://www.midi-store.com/Hosa-DOC-106-Direct-Out-cable-p-16780.html

[peter775]

Instead of sorting sleve and ring. You need to short tip and ring and your cable can go all the way in.

http://www.articlesbase.com/music-articles/using-a-mixer-insert-jack-as-a-direct-out-1452535.html

[Celac]

Hi Peter,

In reading the links you posted, I think you are right, make up the cables as directed and accomplish the same thing. (a normally wired TRS would also kill the channel)  The TS cable works fine too, you just have to use them properly.  The channels are not interrupted if you only engage the first contact (send) on the mixer's TRS.  As the author notes:

The next option using a regular TS to TS cable is to only plug the cable in to the "first click" of the Insert Jack. This will tap the signal and send it straight out to the recorder, while still allowing it to pass on through to the mixer's main outputs. The only drawback to this is that if you don't get the cable plugged in just right (to only the first click), you may end up with either no signal to your recorder or no signal to the main outputs (or both).

His wiring accomplishes the same thing, (no mute) except that it taps the signal and then loops it back at the insert point.  Just hitting the first click gets you the signal without having to loop it back and leaves you out of the signal path of the mixer.  If my cable fails I lose signal, if that cable fails the input mutes.  The nylon nut allows you to simply insert the TS and hit the "first click" without fail.

However, a more direct answer to your question, "why didn't you use TRS," is that I knew how to do it with the TS (having used this feature of insert before) and simply made a cable that I already knew would work.  The TRS wired as noted might be more user friendly though as you could simply give it someone and tell them, "patch this into the insert point of the mixer."  I will have to think about that (it is a simple matter to rebuild the cable).  The "crew" in this theater is not only volunteer, they are all youth and simplicity has benefits.

Celac

[peter775]

all good. just wanted to give a hint how to avoid the plastic nut.

[studiomprd]

Once again proving that there are often multiple correct choices.

[Philip Perkins]

I think the plastic nut is brilliant.  I have a lot of off the shelf TRS snakes that I don't want to rewire tip-to-ring, making them useless for normal patching.  I'm gonna go buy myself about 40 of those nuts for insert outs.....

phil p

[Celac]

I think the plastic nut is brilliant.  I have a lot of off the shelf TRS snakes that I don't want to rewire tip-to-ring, making them useless for normal patching.  I'm gonna go buy myself about 40 of those nuts for insert outs.....

phil p

...nothing like a wander through home depot, 5/16's seems the best fit.  I bet with your gigs you do a lot oddball patching. 

Celac