RadoStefanov Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I will be working on a scripted drama shoot. I have worked on dramas but most of them were semi amateur. The shoot starts in 3 days. What should I ask from the director other then script,camera/sync information? What is your usual workflow when working on dramas? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Congrats! First, I wouldn't ask the director about any of that stuff. The UPM can get you camera info, whether they will have mid-day film breaks (so you know how much stock and how many sound reports to order) and forward your request for a script and crew list to the production secretary or APOC (who will or should be your best friend). I try to find out how much the director knows/cares about sound. Does he/she want a whisper over Comteks re: 'that airplane' during the take, nothing at all during takes, or are they experienced enough to hear issues for themselves without word from me? Like that. UPM should get you post's names and #'s if they're not on the crew list. I like to speak with the editor to make nice, but get specs (usually) from the assistant editor or post supervisor (if there is one). Also good idea to speak with the 2nd AC re: video village setup so you'll know what to expect and prepare. Confirm camera info with 2nd AC. I cc the UPM and editor on any emails to the assistant editor re: specs so they know I'm on the case. Always get specs in writing. There's a lot more to this, but I'm tired just now. -- Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thanks. I did communicate with the editor and dp so far. Seams like a easy shoot. I am waiting for the script. What worries me is I have to boom and mix. No problem with my abilities since I have done plenty of reality TV. But for drama I would like to have a second boom just in case. I am afraid of planting mics without knowing the location. Also I can only plant mics wired. How would I run wires and hide mics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Graff Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thanks. I did communicate with the editor and dp so far. Seams like a easy shoot. I am waiting for the script. What worries me is I have to boom and mix. No problem with my abilities since I have done plenty of reality TV. But for drama I would like to have a second boom just in case. I am afraid of planting mics without knowing the location. Also I can only plant mics wired. How would I run wires and hide mics? Hi Rado, Sounds like you're committed as a one-man crew, but there are massive compromises with this approach to scripted drama. I'm not trying to piss you off, but this is my experience. I do a ton of solo work on documentaries, doc-style reality shoots, lifestyle/corporate shoots, and, of course, interviews, but when it comes to scripted drama, a boom operator is required to do it any justice. Even a 2-person crew is barely enough. You will often wish you had a third. From keeping written (or typed) sound reports, managing media, managing Comteks, jamming slates and/or lockits, finding power, tracking down and eliminating noisemakers, moving between locations, learning dialogue, being on set and tracking all the myriad conversations that clue you in as to what is coming up, building relationships with grip and lighting, etc., etc. etc. It is a different world from reality and one person cannot do it justice. Even wireless plant mics are often tough to place and often the third is doing it while you are listening to the rehearsal and deciding where to use the boom and wires and whether the plant will work better for this line or that. Above all is is the issue of MIXING vs. merely multi-tracking and it is impossible when you are booming. You will end up mixing wires only. Or booming with one arm. I don't mean to be negative and I hope it is a great experience for you. Jan's advice is, as usual, spot on. There is a lot of nuance and feeling things out. It depends on the director, but in my experience that is someone I speak with only when there isn't a more appropriate person to direct a question to. Directors have a lot on their plate and the minutiae of our job is not at the top of the list. Anyway, have a great shoot. Hopefully their expectations are in line with what it is possible for you to do alone. As long as everyone's eyes are wide open to the necessary compromises to this approach it should go fine. Good luck! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Per Mr. Graff--re one-man band on drama: I've done a lot of this and you really have to triage your activities and the expectations of the productions. In truth, your "average": how much good sound you get, will be lower than if you had help. You can't do all the secretarial due diligence unless the shoot is extremely simple. There will be things you'll have to let go. I try to have a friendly "come to Jesus" meeting beforehand about what they'll be getting w/ me working alone, esp in complex scenes, and what they won't be getting. If it is a long shoot (like a feature) keeping things simple will be even more important as you tire. It sounds like you have lots of doco experience and that that is maybe what they want, so treat it like a doc and you'll be fine. It's the best you can do.... phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Rado, Ditto what both Paul and Jan have written. Narrative isn't just about hearing the words, it's about creating a continuity of sound within a scene and between scenes. Unless you can boom the whole thing, and understand the "art" of booming, it is unlikely you will be turning in a useful production mix track. Mixing wires and boom and holding the pole yourself, and somehow staying stationary enough to plant wired mics is simply impossible. The good news is that if they expect you to do this all on your own, then they're not experienced enough to notice the difference. Good luck, and enjoy. Smile through it all, and both you and your fellow crew members will enjoy yourselves a great deal more than trying to control what you can't. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 " most of them were semi amateur. " and this one is not?? if they were experienced professionals, there would be at least a two person sound crew... OK, so with that in mind, you really ought to be wondering how much (little) experience these folks have; The Director, Producer, UPM, the "DP", Gaffer, the AD, and even the post folks... how many cameras shooting?? double system?? script supervisor?? proper blocking rehearsals?? pages/day ?? stand-ins?? insurance?? security?? SAFETY?? you aren't doing "flat rate" ?? OT?? turnarounds?? I expect you'll be reporting back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Something to consider under the circumstances: just use wires on everybody and forget the boom. Put it out on a stand if you must, and focus on the mix. That approach assumes you have wires and wiring skillz. That's how Chris Newman does it and he's an Oscar winner When you said it was a narrative, I thought you meant at least a two-person crew. The very idea of what you propose to do makes my head and back ache. -- Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanross Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Dude! They are right. You'll need a boom guy. I've done short films that way and it's sucks. I no longer do drama unless I have a boom guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thanks to everybody for the input. All valid points. Beyond the answer maybe I should ask a different question: Imagine if I am the Boom person for the shoot and there is a mixer. What advise can you give me as far as learning dialog and not having to swing the boom like a flag pole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thanks to everybody for the input. All valid points. Beyond the answer maybe I should ask a different question: Imagine if I am the Boom person for the shoot and there is a mixer. What advise can you give me as far as learning dialog and not having to swing the boom like a flag pole? There's no substitute for experience or watching someone with experience. Sorry. When I was booming, I found understanding the story and the characters and getting in rhythm with the actors was more important than "learning" the dialog. But I have worked with excellent boom guys who study the dialog hard. Learning lenses used to be important, but seeing something other than a zoom lens on a camera these days is an oddity. Having an understanding of proper composition for specific shots helps, but more and more things aren't shot "properly", so it makes it a little more challenging. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bondelev Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I would suggest practice booming before you get to the set. You will be surprised at a lot of things, including how fast your arms get tired on long takes, how little movement it takes to induce mike noise, and even how easy it is to forget what you’re doing and slowly sink the mike into the shot. Memorize the script, and get used to angling or rotating the mike between two actors rapidly with little movement noise. Try not to swish the mike back and forth unless it is really necessary when the actors are far apart from each other. This will help prevent handling noise, and it can help prevent wind noise depending on which mike you are using. If they do any rehearsals, boom them and learn the characters’ performance, as Robert points out. Not only the rhythm of the dialog, but also their movements in blocking so you can follow them correctly. I find the biggest mistakes on student booming are from not following the actors correctly. They get too much noise, or they get off-axis dialog. As a mixer, you will hear those problems immediately, but if that’s during a take, it’s too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Just to add to the above: I found Mark Ulano's piece on "The Art of Zen Boom" very useful... http://www.perchman.com/dossiers/artzenboom/en/artzenboom_en_1.php Jan's advice is what I would do if I were in your position and couldn't bludgeon the production manager into paying for a boom op. I'm in the middle of reading Richard Patton's new Trew Audio book Sound Man, and so far, I've never seen a better explanation of the philosophy of how to work the set, how to handle territorial issues with the crew, and how to overcome location problems. Some very sobering advice there. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I am not comfortable having some PA boom. I have no problem booming. My plan is lav everybody and do my best with the boom. Use my 3 small condensers as plants if I need to. Just to add to the above: I found Mark Ulano's piece on "The Art of Zen Boom" very useful... http://www.perchman.com/dossiers/artzenboom/en/artzenboom_en_1.php Jan's advice is what I would do if I were in your position and couldn't bludgeon the production manager into paying for a boom op. I'm in the middle of reading Richard Patton's new Trew Audio book Sound Man, and so far, I've never seen a better explanation of the philosophy of how to work the set, how to handle territorial issues with the crew, and how to overcome location problems. Some very sobering advice there. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thanks for the link and info. Just to add to the above: I found Mark Ulano's piece on "The Art of Zen Boom" very useful... http://www.perchman.com/dossiers/artzenboom/en/artzenboom_en_1.php Jan's advice is what I would do if I were in your position and couldn't bludgeon the production manager into paying for a boom op. I'm in the middle of reading Richard Patton's new Trew Audio book Sound Man, and so far, I've never seen a better explanation of the philosophy of how to work the set, how to handle territorial issues with the crew, and how to overcome location problems. Some very sobering advice there. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 " most of them were semi amateur. " and this one is not?? Semi Amateurs : People with DSLR who had shot and edited their dog a few times and do not know what they are doing Semi profesionals: People with any kind of gear who know how to use it and have experience. Senator do not assume somebody must be a retard because he can not afford to get a boom person. Times are tough. I am not being paid my usual rate. I am getting in the project because I like the people personally and also get some experience with drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate C Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 When it comes to booming, watch the blocking (understanding it will change on the day), whilst keeping an ear on what the DP and director are planning, shot wise. Quite likely deferent to proposed shot list. It also helps to listen in on rehearsals or director time with the actors when the shot is being set up. Keeping in mind not to interrupt their process. As for learning the dialogue I will read the scenes for the day over and over again till I have it basically in my head. To be honest I rarely know the dialogue word for word, but I will know the last few words of each actors lines and first of the following actors lines. Also the pattern in which they speak. Coming from doco/reality you already have one of the best tools a boomie needs... being able to read body language. Oh and always have the script for the scene you are shoting in your back pocket. There is absolutely no excuse for not doing so. Often the Gaffer and 1st AC can be your best friends. One thing that will never change is the shot needs to be lit in one form or another, so develop an understanding of lighting. I like to play with shadows before a take to ensure I have a plan B & C when things don't go to plan. Knowing lenses is important and composition. As Robert mentioned, primes are becoming more and more rare as are the norms. I find my self taking a quick peak at the focus pullers monitor or split when possible. Thankfully using a wireless boom has made this a lot easier. Basically be everywhere at once, hear everything whilst not being seen or heard. Like being a naughty little child it can be so much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thank You. I am familiar with lenses. Back in the conservatory film photography was a requered subject for film sound. I found it strange that primes are not being used as much anymore. I like primes over zoom lenses mainly because they are cheaper and genneraly faster then zooms, When it comes to booming, watch the blocking (understanding it will change on the day), whilst keeping an ear on what the DP and director are planning, shot wise. Quite likely deferent to proposed shot list. It also helps to listen in on rehearsals or director time with the actors when the shot is being set up. Keeping in mind not to interrupt their process. As for learning the dialogue I will read the scenes for the day over and over again till I have it basically in my head. To be honest I rarely know the dialogue word for word, but I will know the last few words of each actors lines and first of the following actors lines. Also the pattern in which they speak. Coming from doco/reality you already have one of the best tools a boomie needs... being able to read body language. Oh and always have the script for the scene you are shoting in your back pocket. There is absolutely no excuse for not doing so. Often the Gaffer and 1st AC can be your best friends. One thing that will never change is the shot needs to be lit in one form or another, so develop an understanding of lighting. I like to play with shadows before a take to ensure I have a plan B & C when things don't go to plan. Knowing lenses is important and composition. As Robert mentioned, primes are becoming more and more rare as are the norms. I find my self taking a quick peak at the focus pullers monitor or split when possible. Thankfully using a wireless boom has made this a lot easier. Basically be everywhere at once, hear everything whilst not being seen or heard. Like being a naughty little child it can be so much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thanks to Bronson Wilson for the helpful email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I am not comfortable having some PA boom. I have no problem booming. My plan is lav everybody and do my best with the boom. Use my 3 small condensers as plants if I need to. I did a lot of good-sounding low budget features with inexperienced boom operators, some of whom were not much better than human c-stands. Fact is, I still construct my plans for the scene around the boom operator's skill level. -- Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 On 1-man departments... I find many times where I cannot bring in a boom op due to budget and it is important to understand, it is the production which has shown lack of commitment to the sound department and compromised your ability to mix. Everyone has limitations and sometimes we have to temper our "can do" attitudes and step back where the situation dictates. You have 2 hands and you need 4. You can't mix. I generally explain this to the director and proceed to explain how I will only be sending what is qualified as a scratch track to the camera, if needed, and won't be delivering a mix. Mixing will have to be done in post and will only deliver ISO's (although I'll record a mix track too, which often is just a duplicate of the boom ISO - but not always). Do your best to "mix with the boom". Different situations require different approaches. Sometimes you'll just cradle the boom and actually mix wires to the guide. I generally don't have much luck with plants for non-vehicular work, probably indicative of poor tech scouting and location choices with the productions I've worked with. Vehicle work is a completely different animal with it's own rules. Since this is more of a set piece thinking game, you won't be as compromised short of help, just make sure production gives you enough time to prep and tape your equipment in place. I just boomed for a local mixer who's boom just moved to Las Vegas. I don't know how good he is, seems like he's more of a studio cat than location guy, but if your interested, I can try to get him in touch with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 " Senator do not assume somebody must be a retard because he can not afford to get a boom person " I never said anything like that! but they certainly aren't doing this very professionally, more like "semi-amateur" and mostly, when moviemakers are unwilling (or unable) to take quality, basic professional advice, the project has to suffer... " it is important to understand, it is the production which has shown lack of commitment to the sound department and compromised your ability to mix. " ...compromised your ability to do a competent or professional job! Moviemaking isn't just about having a camcorder! and if they "can't afford a boom operator" during production, it will cost them later! Rado, you are getting a lot of good advice, perhaps try not to be so defensive... " What advise can you give me as far as learning dialog " LEARN IT! the best boomers know the dialog better than the actors! (of course if the actors are always ad libbing...) " I am not comfortable having some PA boom. " I believe a good, experienced Boomer is usually more critical than a good mixer, in especially in situations like yours. If you were a competent Boomer, then you should have their PA watch the blinky-lights, and keep them from turning red. If the mic isn't where it needs to be, no matter how good a mixer you are, you can't get proper sound; if the boom keeps causing issues, you'll be blamed. it would be a lose-lose situation for you, and a disappointment for your moviemakers... " Often the Gaffer and 1st AC can be your best friends. " experienced, professional Gaffers and AC's who know what they are doing!! Keep in mind, a good Boomer knows about as much about lighting as a Gaffer... and " One thing that will never change is the shot needs to be lit in one form or another " well, they ought to be, except they often aren't on a lot of these lo-budget projects... ("we'll use natural lighting")... another thing I see a lot of is spending set-up time lighting empty spaces (sets) instead of the people (actors); not having, and using stand-in's is another really bad mistake! " If they do any rehearsals, boom them and learn the characters’ performance,...Not only the rhythm of the dialog, but also their movements in blocking so you can follow them correctly. " adequate rehearsals, and especially proper blocking rehearsals are another endangered species... moviemakers who can't, as they often put it 'waste time with rehearsals' are making huge mistakes. BTW, the rehearsals last week at the director's apartment, don't count as the cast and crew need to see an actual blocking rehearsal, on the set, with the actors (being in makeup and wardrobe is not necessary!) first thing, so they can properly plan for and set up for the actual shot; as for 'let's shoot the rehearsal, maybe we'll get lucky' I don't think so! " I found it strange that primes are not being used as much anymore. " Zoom Lens in many cases are convenient compromises, primes are not as "convenient" as a zoom, or two; certainly for the semi-< amateur or pro! > " I like primes over zoom lenses mainly because they are cheaper and genneraly faster " DP's prefer them because they are sharper! Script Supervisors, real tripods, and dependable frame lines are also scarce on these projects...but multiple camcorders are all the rage (YUK!) " get some experience with drama " even if it is poor experience. "Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment." -- Oscar Wilde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Senator, I am not being defensive. And also you know I love you with all my heart. (: Great reminder about wardrobe!!! Usually when I do reality and corporate videos changing people's outfit is harder then collecting money so I gave up requesting it . " Senator do not assume somebody must be a retard because he can not afford to get a boom person " I never said anything like that! but they certainly aren't doing this very professionally, more like "semi-amateur" and mostly, when moviemakers are unwilling (or unable) to take quality, basic professional advice, the project has to suffer... " it is important to understand, it is the production which has shown lack of commitment to the sound department and compromised your ability to mix. " ...compromised your ability to do a competent or professional job! Moviemaking isn't just about having a camcorder! and if they "can't afford a boom operator" during production, it will cost them later! Rado, you are getting a lot of good advice, perhaps try not to be so defensive... " What advise can you give me as far as learning dialog " LEARN IT! the best boomers know the dialog better than the actors! (of course if the actors are always ad libbing...) " I am not comfortable having some PA boom. " I believe a good, experienced Boomer is usually more important than a good mixer, in especially in situations like yours. Have the PA watch the blinky-lights, and keep them from turning red. " Often the Gaffer and 1st AC can be your best friends. " experienced, professional Gaffers and AC's who know what they are doing!! Keep in mind, a good Boomer knows about as much about lighting as a Gaffer... and " One thing that will never change is the shot needs to be lit in one form or another " well, except on a lot of these lo-budget projects... ("we'll use natural lighting")... another thing I see a lot of is spending set-up time lighting empty spaces (sets) instead of the people (actors); not having, and using stand-in's is another really bad mistake! " If they do any rehearsals, boom them and learn the characters’ performance,...Not only the rhythm of the dialog, but also their movements in blocking so you can follow them correctly. " adequate rehearsals, and especially proper blocking rehearsals are another endangered species... moviemakers who can't, as they often put it 'waste time with rehearsals' are making huge mistakes. (BTW, the rehearsals last week at the director's apartment, don't count) as the cast and crew need to see an actual blocking rehearsal, on the set, with the actors (makeup and wardrobe not necessary!) first thing, so they can properly plan for and set up for the actual shot; as for 'let's shoot the rehearsal, maybe we'll get lucky' I don't think so! " I found it strange that primes are not being used as much anymore. " Zoom Lens in many cases are convenient compromises, primes are not as "convenient" as a zoom, or two; certainly for the semi-< amateur or pro! > " I like primes over zoom lenses mainly because they are cheaper and genneraly faster " DP's prefer them because they are sharper! real tripods are also scarce on these projects... " get some experience with drama " even if it is poor experience. Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from poor judgment. but multiple camcorders are all the rage (YUK!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Usually when I do reality and corporate videos changing people's outfit is harder then collecting money so I gave up requesting it. Honestly, Rado, if they won't hire you an experienced boom operator, they are not going to have "choices" of costumes. Choices cost money, which they clearly do not have. And to be frank, your producers may not be "retards", but they are fools for not budgeting a boom operator. If they don't have the money to properly staff their movie, then they don't have the money to make one. If they do it anyway, then they'll get what they pay for, but in most cases that's all they care about. Quality is not longer expected on that type of shoot. Cheap, fast, good. Pick two. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 " Great reminder about wardrobe!!! " My reference to wardrobe (also hair/make-up) is that unexperienced moviemakers often have their talent report directly to those departments at call time, and they don't do a blocking rehearsal, including putting down marks; instead, they just light the empty set and wait until the actors are 'camera ready', at which time you may find your strategy for the scene unworkable, and "they" are in a hurry to shoot...or worse: "let's shoot the rehearsal, we may get lucky" ...and what Robert just said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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