Choosing a light stand to support a boom pole for outdoor interviews

[inspire]

My experience shows that zeps and deadcat do not help much. Only in the case of very light wind, it will certainly help.

[rmac]

UPS has the Modern stand out for delivery, so I should be able to post some photos in the next while:

 

Mini Baby Stand (Modern Studio)

2½” Grip Head (Modern Studio)

Holder for Boom Pole (Kupo)

Sandbags or Manfrotto Counter Balance Weights

 

I hope to use the stand principally with the following boom poles:

Weight: 405g/14oz plus exterior cable and mike| Maximum length: 2.3m/7’6” (Panamic 58-5803)

Weight: 680g/1.5lb plus mike | Maximum length: 2.7m/8’9” (K-Tek K102CCR)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rmac]

Ha!

 

Kupo’s Boom Pole Holder has two magnets inside it. The idea is that, until needed, one can stick the holder to the stand that it’s being used with. The holder is a knock-off of the Boom Mate, apparently designed by a mixer named Martyn Truman. Not that the magnet feature matters much, but this is one way that Kupo differentiates its holder in marketing.

 

Except, as I learnt this morning, Kupo’s holder won’t stick to Modern's stand. Why?

 

The Modern stand is made of 304 stainless steel. This is Wikipedia on 304’s properties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_304_stainless_steel. This widely used alloy has “excellent" corrosion resistance, but it isn’t magnetic 😀

 

 

[rmac]

Further to the post above, the reason why I purchased Kupo’s boom holder rather the Boom Mate might interest future readers of this thread. This is about cosmetics, which I care about in the presence of interview subjects.

 

This screen capture is from Trew Audio’s 2022 YouTube video on the Boom Mate:

 

 

Trew offers two versions. There's the original, on the right above, and version 2 on the left. One difference is that the original is 14” long and version 2 is 10” long. The other difference is that the original was painted. Version 2 is anodized, and I interpret the video as saying that the original is also now anodized. The video acknowledges that grip heads will scratch up both, but that the anodized version, compared with the painted holder, should “look good for awhile” and hold up cosmetically “a little bit more”.

 

In another thread, there are two comments on Boom Mate wear, but this one reflects both:

 

Quote

"I moved over to the boom mate v2 style holder and I will say it makes getting the boom pole in and out of the cradle significantly easier compared to the fish pole design. Helpful for interviews setups in tighter locations. Would recommend this product but I will say that the coating on the boom mate began to wear off disappointingly quickly."

 

This is the Kupo holder:

 

 

The difference in price between the Boom Mate and Kupo holder is all of $4. At 12.6” long, the Kupo more or less splits the difference between the two Boom Mates. I think that scratches from grip heads are inevitable, but I’m hoping that they may jump out less on chromed steel, at least at a distance. I’m thinking about applying some cloth tape to the Kupo where it’s in contact with the grip head. Is there a reason why nobody makes this design from plain, uncoated stainless steel?

 

Unlike the Boom Mate, the black rubber in contact with the boom pole runs the full length of the “U” bracket. The rubber has a bit of give, but isn’t squishy. I think that it’s unlikely to abrade the pole. The attachment points at the “U” brackets appear to be welded. I suspect that the caps just cover the magnets. 

 

Boom pole holders that a grip head holds via a single pin hide cosmetic damage. Examples are Remote Audio’s Boom Boy ($35) and K-Tek's Boom Cradle 2 ($180). Cosmetics aside, I prefer the Boom Mate/Kupo design to the Boom Boy's. The K-Tek design is closer to what I want. However, I'm not prepared to pay $180 for a boom pole holder, especially given that the main difference between K-Tek’s version 1, which cost $133, and version 2, appears to be a 35% per cent price increase.

[Izen Ears]

On 11/7/2024 at 10:37 PM, inspire said:

My experience shows that zeps and deadcat do not help much. Only in the case of very light wind, it will certainly help.

That's a really weird thing to declare.  I've had 25 mph wind and zero wind noise using a Cinela Piano.  (At that point it's the wind-blowing-things noise rather than direct wind noise!)  Maybe you could bury the dead cat (with honors and ceremony) and get a better system?  Rolling off 80 - 90 Hz can help also.  That statement of yours does not track in my world.

 

That Kupo / Rycote boom holder design would never work for me, I like having a pin to secure rather than the shaft of the holder - the boom boy is perfect.  I've used the same one for over 20 years.  With the more expensive models, I visualize the whole thing falling over sideways while adjusting the angle.  Maybe you all set the angle first so it wouldn't be an issue.  Those photos above show a flat angle (parallel to the ground) which I do not use.  I like the cradle to be higher and have the pole come down at an angle.  Maybe I've been doing it wrong haha!

 

I actually did a few sit down interviews last week and one subject accidentally kicked a leg of the stand. It was a hard kick, and luckily the person did not stumble.  I use a baby digital with a 35-pound shot bag, and it didn't move at all.  A lightweight light stand would have flown across the room and the pole would have fallen, and you know it woulda landed directly on the Schoeps.

[rmac]

2 hours ago, Izen Ears said:

 

... I visualize [the Kupo holder] falling over sideways while adjusting the angle.  Maybe you all set the angle first so it wouldn't be an issue.  Those photos above show a flat angle (parallel to the ground) which I do not use.  I like the cradle to be higher and have the pole come down at an angle.

 

I actually did a few sit down interviews last week and one subject accidentally kicked a leg of the stand. It was a hard kick, and luckily the person did not stumble.  I use a baby digital with a 35-pound shot bag, and it didn't move at all.  A lightweight light stand would have flown across the room and the pole would have fallen, and you know it woulda landed directly on the Schoeps.

 

 

Thanks for your comments. I’ve decided that I like the Kupo holder, but you’re right, I have to pay attention during setup and removal 😀 I also plan to experiment a bit with the holder’s angle and the position of the grip head along the shaft.

 

I need a stand that’s more compact and lighter than your Matthews Digital Baby Stand, but I expect that the Matthews would be an excellent choice otherwise:

 

Maximum height: 4m (13.5’)

Minimum height: 1.25m (50”)

Footprint: 1.25m (50”)

Material: steel and aluminium

Weight: 9kg (20lbs)
 

I’m just going to have to respect the limits of my equipment when scheduling interviews.

 

 

[PMC]

I have been using a beefy baby light stand with a mountain leg for 20 years. Int & ext.

 

Here are shots from today.

 

[rmac]

On 11/10/2024 at 5:54 PM, PMC said:

I have been using a beefy baby light stand with a mountain leg for 20 years. Int & ext.

 

Here are shots from today.

 

Great to see photos of that stand in use. I had the Beefy Baby with two risers on my short list, but I gather that yours is the triple riser version:

 

Matthews Hollywood Beefy Baby - Triple Riser with Rocky Mountain Leg

Maximum height: 3.76m (12.3’)
Minimum height: 1.2m (45.5”)
Footprint: 85cm (33.5”)

Material: steel and aluminium
Weight: 6.1kg (13.5lbs)

[OB1]

3 section is always ideal for any stand being used primarily for a boom.

 

The first two sections are used for the last look height (if needed based on height). The third section is dedicated for swivel and clearing set. After finding the last look height with the first two sections, those can remain untouched for the shot. The third section, which I rarely even clamp fully or if at all, is used to swivel the boom or raise it to get it out of the way. At last look, returning the third section to fully retracted brings you back to the refined height without any adjustment. Leaving the third unclamped also allows any give if anyone rushes into scene for adjustment (the AC of course!) and also allows you to easily clear the boom from the set when moving on (at cut I generally raise the boom first to clear it, then do what I need at my mixer/cart, so others can do what they need on set). Finally, in an ideal scenario, the swivel allows for slight queuing if required, like a talent leaning forward in an interview.

 

Looking at @PMC set, drop the 3rd section down to the base and compensate that height loss with the 2nd section raised. Release the clamp on the 3rd section and this is my ideal setup. Please note this is all technique, not the bible

 

Of course all this is applicable to a 2 section stand, too, but you don't want to run out of height.

[PMC]

I concur with OB1, mostly.

 

When I use a 14ft. boom pole or longer, as in the pics, and extend the top riser 3/4 of the way up, as I usually do, that top stick really gets torked forward so I only raise it up 1/2 way. I rely on the middle riser/stick for full extension and make up the difference with the bottom riser.

 

But being able to use the bottom riser for just swiveling and clearing, as OB1 pointed out, is ideal.

[inspire]

We had a great event over the weekend, where I got to use my tripod. I'm adding photos where I replaced the people with Fill+Pattern in Photoshop for privacy. I'm very satisfied with the tripod!

 

[rmac]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to comment.

 

I’ve had Modern’s Mini Baby Stand for almost two weeks. Early in this thread, I said that I wanted a stand similar to my Matthews Slider Stand, but with somewhat more height. I think that the new stand fits the bill. It’s easy to travel with, with a collapsed height of 84 cm (33”), and weighing about 4.3 kg (9½ lb) with a grip head. It’s going to work well for seated interviews, including outdoors. We don’t plan to interview anybody in a gale, and I think that it will do well in normal weather.

 

People reading this later may find some photos useful when considering whether this stand might meet their needs. Sorry, but I didn’t bring sandbags and mikes with me to make these.

 

It was a pleasant surprise to learn that the stand balances nicely on the top of a small roller bag, even without bungee cords 🙂

 

 

 

This should work for a seated interview with a Schoeps MK 41 supercardioid. The stand is not at maximum height, and its riser/center column, in addition to its three feet, is in contact with the ground. As discussed earlier, the boom holder is made by Kupo

 

 

 

I have other jobs for the stand, such as using it for stereo recording. The Matthews Slider Stand and this stand together will work well when I want to record with two omnidirectional mikes a good distance apart.

 

I have Grace Design Space Bars in 66cm (26”), shown in the photo below, and 30cm (12”). I use them to record with omnidirectional mikes when I don’t need a lot of separation, and with cardioid mikes configured for ORTF.

 

To mount a Grace Design bar, or the Jecklin Disk in the next photo, I use a Matthews Baby Ball Head Adapter. 

 

 

 

I just received this Jecklin Disk. I want to try it out as an alternative to two omnidirectional mikes spaced apart.

 

 

 

If I want more height, I can use one of Kupo’s Baby Stand Extensions. I have the 6” and the 12” shown in the photo below. There's also an 18” and a 24". I have a lot of confidence in the ones I have; they seem very solid.

 

 

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

Looks nice and compact.

[inspire]

Jecklin disk MICROPHONE - That sounds exciting!

I myself ordered this Stereo Bar:

https://www.thomann.de/intl/km_23560_stereo_bar.htm

Nice pictures, thanks for sharing!

[rmac]

19 hours ago, inspire said:

Jecklin disk MICROPHONE - That sounds exciting!

 

It will be exciting if it can replace using two stands or a long stereo bar to space two Schoeps MK2 omnis 🙂

 

A German company named MBHO makes that disk. MB stands for mikrofonbau (microphone works). H is for founder Herbert Haun. O stands for Obrigheim, the town where MBHO is located. This is their webpage about the disk: https://www.mbho.de/pdf/oss_discs.pdf

 

There’s very little information about MBHO on the internet. However, in 2013 Dale Pro Audio posted a brief, but interesting interview with Herbert Haun.

 

I ordered the disk from Canford in the U.K. Its price, with shipping, was more attractive than buying from a U.S. reseller.

 

There are several videos on YouTube about making a Jecklin Disk rather than buying one.

 

This video discusses the MBHO disk, and compares two Shure KSM141 omnis using the disk with two Schoeps MK4 cardioids in ORTF. The Shures cost US$900/pair and the Schoeps are about $3300/pair, or $1800 if only the MK4 capsules are needed. 

 

 

 

[Jim Feeley]

There's been plenty of discussion about MBHO here, maybe 10-15 years ago? though not much recently. Google provides better results than the built-in JWS search feature. Try this link to see the past JWS discussions about MBHO: https://tinyurl.com/bdhewwf2

 

I view them as one of several lower-cost manufacturers inspired by Schoeps and Neumann. IIRC, they made (and perhaps still make) capsules used in Audix microphones. The Audix mics I've heard are OK, but not Schoeps (esp off-axis).... But I'll defer to the better and more experienced ears around here.

 

Same with Jecklin discs; I can think of a few people here who probably have informed opinions on them. 

[rmac]

22 hours ago, Jim Feeley said:

There's been plenty of discussion about MBHO here, maybe 10-15 years ago? though not much recently. Google provides better results than the built-in JWS search feature. Try this link to see the past JWS discussions about MBHO: https://tinyurl.com/bdhewwf2

 

I view them as one of several lower-cost manufacturers inspired by Schoeps and Neumann. IIRC, they made (and perhaps still make) capsules used in Audix microphones. The Audix mics I've heard are OK, but not Schoeps (esp off-axis).... But I'll defer to the better and more experienced ears around here.

 

Same with Jecklin discs; I can think of a few people here who probably have informed opinions on them. 

 

Thanks for pointing out that there are several discussions here about MBHO. I’m working through the list that you kindly provided.

 

I got interested in trying a baffle after I had an opportunity to use Neumann’s KU 100. I can afford a Jecklin Disk. I can’t afford this 🙂

 

 

 

The Neumann is very sensitive to wind. I didn’t have Neumann’s own wind protection for the “ears”. Instead, I taped half of a Cinela Leo Ball onto each ear. That did the trick.

 

This support will also work well for the Jecklin Disk. It consists of a robust Gitzo GM4542 monopod screwed onto an equally robust ground tripod that Really Right Stuff used to make. If I want to handhold, I can just use the monopod and its usual pivoting foot.

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

I like the Leo Ball trick.  I haven't used the Neumann head, but I built my own head out of Styrofoam and tucked two lavs in the ears.  Worked great, but like you said, wind noise was doozy.  I used a knit tube neckwarmer over the head to cut down on wind, but I bet the Leo Ball trick is more effective and more transparent.

How does that mounting do for shock protection?  The other issue I had was how incredibly sensitive to handling noise the head was...  One of these days I'll get around to custom-building something, but I'm looking for ideas...

[rmac]

I didn’t have to worry about a shock mount or handling noise for the Neumann. It’s fairly heavy, and there’s nothing to handle once it’s set up. I don’t think I’ve seen a photo of someone using a shock mount with it.

 

In very light air, I also didn’t use shock mounts for the Schoeps MK2 mikes in the photo below. The air was so light that I just used Schoeps W5D hollow balls on them. The mikes are mounted on a 66cm (26”) Grace Design Space Bar. The Space Bar is mounted on the top of a Sound Devices MixPre-3. The MixPre is mounted on the same monopod and ground tripod that I used for the Neumann above. I just wanted to see if sandwiching the audio recorder would work. It does, but I don’t have a need to do it and haven’t since. I mount the Space Bar directly to the monopod.

 

If there’s a need, a shock mount can be mounted on top of the monopod or along the Space Bar. The top of the monopod has a reversible stud for 3/8” and 1/4”, and the mike mounts on the Space Bar will of course take a shock mount.

 

The attraction of this kind of rig is that it’s compact and light. It can also be used on a sidewalk without getting in people’s way. In New York, where I am, doing this with a tripod without a permit, and all that that entails, is illegal. I’ve had no problem using this monopod rig. It’s also reasonably stable, but I wouldn’t walk away from it and I wouldn’t use it in windy conditions. I can also handhold the monopod without the ground tripod, which reduces weight further and takes stability out of the equation. By itself, the monopod weighs 1.5 lb.

 

 

 

 

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

Nice setup!

I'd imagine the weight of the Neumann head helps a lot.  It turns out Styrofoam is a really terrible material for sound; it conducts vibration like crazy.  I had the head mounted on a mic stand in a wheat field, and the wheat stalks gently blowing against the pole of the mic stand produced handling noise that was louder than the recorded audio.

 

Am I understanding correctly that there's a shock mount I could get that would mount between the monopod and the stereo bar?  I haven't encountered anything like that ... what does it look like?

[rmac]

51 minutes ago, The Documentary Sound Guy said:

Am I understanding correctly that there's a shock mount I could get that would mount between the monopod and the stereo bar?

 

A Grace Design Space Bar is used with a mount for each mike on the bar. These will take a shock mount for the mike. There’s no shock mount for the bar itself.

 

The mike mounts come in regular and tall, and with 3/8” or 5/8” male threads.  The bridge in the middle in this photo is an option that lets you position a mike in line with, in front of or behind the others.

 

 

 

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

Ah, ok, I guess I misunderstood.

[rmac]

2 hours ago, The Documentary Sound Guy said:

Ah, ok, I guess I misunderstood.

 

Sometimes pictures work better than my attempts at description 🙂

[Adam Pressley]

On 10/24/2024 at 9:16 PM, Pat Slater said:

I've used a Manfrotto light stand ( light by name, light by weight ) with a Cardalini clamp ( actually Mathews Mathalini ) on one of the cast metal stage lock points with my bag as the counter weight, at an adjustable comfortable operating height. Boom holder in a Manfrotto knuckle. Has worked well for past 30 years, only way to better it would be an adjustable leg.....   Oh yeah,  a Robo cup bottle holder on shaft.   All folds down and travels in a tripod bag on a shoulder. C-Stand too heavy and bulky.

I’d love to see a pic of this setup!

[inspire]

My new setup (Stereo Bar) has arrived, and it looks like this.
At the ends, I’m currently using two omni-directional lavalier microphones (DPA 6060-OC-U-B34).
In the center, there’s a bass drum microphone.
I put it together for a test to see how it looks, but I’m planning to try it out in nature.
From your topic, I’m interested in the “Kupo holder” or something similar, so I could attach a boompole holding a shotgun microphone to a regular stand.