Sonosax SX mixers

[bigidibo]

Hello all!

 

I'm thinking of acquiring the older Sax mixer, SX-8 or SX-10. I do have MD2D and it is an awesome-sounding unit, I don't expect the mixer to sound the same of course but really would love to try.

 

I was wondering, maybe, by any chance, if anybody has this hooked up and could do me a favor and run a few samples through it and/or record something. To have a broad sense of tonality, noise floor etc...

 

 

That would be really helpful and appreciated

 

 

Cheers

[Axel Mishael]

10 minutes ago, bigidibo said:

Hello all!

 

I'm thinking of acquiring the older Sax mixer, SX-8 or SX-10. I do have MD2D and it is an awesome-sounding unit, I don't expect the mixer to sound the same of course but really would love to try.

 

I was wondering, maybe, by any chance, if anybody has this hooked up and could do me a favor and run a few samples through it and/or record something. To have a broad sense of tonality, noise floor etc...

 

 

That would be really helpful and appreciated

 

 

Cheers

What you need is here : 

 

 

[bigidibo]

Oh

2 hours ago, Axel Mishael said:

What you need is here : 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, saw that I really would like that the older ones would have the same sound, but I doubt it..

 

Anyway, thanks. I dig this tone a lot

 

 

 

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Try a SX-ST sometimes you got one to sell on Facebook

 

This is a SX-ES wich is the little brother of the ST.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=8860698820714312&set=g.422226551455412

 

 

[bigidibo]

11 hours ago, Patrick Tresch said:

Try a SX-ST sometimes you got one to sell on Facebook

 

This is a SX-ES wich is the little brother of the ST.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=8860698820714312&set=g.422226551455412

 

 

 

The link seems not working for me, maybe because of the region... Are you selling it? 

[IronFilm]

27 minutes ago, bigidibo said:

The link seems not working for me, maybe because of the region... Are you selling it? 

The link works fine for me (I'm in New Zealand). Are you logged into Facebook??

Anyway, you can see the exact same one advertised on eBay here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/116418377862 (7.5K euros)

 

btw, you might also be interested in a PSC Solice that just got recently listed on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/286212982876 (US$2.7K)

[bigidibo]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

The link works fine for me (I'm in New Zealand). Are you logged into Facebook??

Anyway, you can see the exact same one advertised on eBay here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/116418377862 (7.5K euros)

 

btw, you might also be interested in a PSC Solice that just got recently listed on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/286212982876 (US$2.7K)

 

Yes, logged, but doesn't show me the page... anyway, thanks for the eBay links!

 

It looks very nice, but the price is a bit steep for now. I think the older one would do for the purpose I'm looking.

 

PSC looks interesting. Are you selling it?

[Matthias Richter]

I still got my Cooper CS208DV1 up for sale - also a very fine analog console 

[bigidibo]

4 hours ago, Matthias Richter said:

I still got my Cooper CS208DV1 up for sale - also a very fine analog console 

 

Looks very nice indeed. How much are looking for?

 

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, bigidibo said:

It looks very nice, but the price is a bit steep for now.

Yeah anything Sonosax is going to be crazy expensive.

16 hours ago, bigidibo said:

PSC looks interesting. Are you selling it?

Nope, not mine, but just suggesting it as another option if you're looking for an analog mixing board. 

A few years ago I was semi seriously considering the PSC Solice Mini, and I guess sometimes still just keep tabs on what's selling, and the PSC Solice I linked to is the bigger brother of the Solice Mini.

[Philip Perkins]

The older Sax mixers can sound great, but you should consider that they are pretty much not user-serviceable unless you are an experienced tech with the correct tools.  They are VERY densely packed inside.  Since the models of Sonosax you are looking at could be from the 1980s you might want to see if there is anyone in your area who can evaluate and service them (unless you plan to send it to Sonosax in Switzerland).  A service for a mixer like this can be very expensive.

[bigidibo]

3 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

The older Sax mixers can sound great, but you should consider that they are pretty much not user-serviceable unless you are an experienced tech with the correct tools.  They are VERY densely packed inside.  Since the models of Sonosax you are looking at could be from the 1980s you might want to see if there is anyone in your area who can evaluate and service them (unless you plan to send it to Sonosax in Switzerland).  A service for a mixer like this can be very expensive.

 

Yes, that was specifically what I'm interested in: that era of Sonosax. I wonder if it is any good... They can be found at reasonable prices...

DENSE - do you mean SMD-style dense? And yes, fixing or improving is not a problem. I know a few golden hands around here. 

 

Cheers

 

 

[Matthias Richter]

12 hours ago, bigidibo said:

 

Looks very nice indeed. How much are looking for?

 

Asking 3.500€ plus VAT and shipping 

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Filmton.Equipment.Gebraucht/permalink/2602200656620727/?sale_post_id=2602200656620727&app=fbl

[Masaki Hatsui]

Just found a old thread which may interest you

 

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/35618-sonosax-sx-s-vs-sx-st-preamp/#comment-372831

 

 

[Philip Perkins]

On 12/18/2024 at 1:17 AM, bigidibo said:

 

Yes, that was specifically what I'm interested in: that era of Sonosax. I wonder if it is any good... They can be found at reasonable prices...

DENSE - do you mean SMD-style dense? And yes, fixing or improving is not a problem. I know a few golden hands around here. 

 

Cheers

 

 

Good then.  I really liked the sound of the 1980s Sax mixers, and even though they were much more expensive than most alternatives they were quite popular among feature film mixers.  All audio electronics, including Sax, have improved since then, but if the price is good and you have some people who can check it out for you (and maybe even do mods) then great.  Do you plan to use it for dialog or music or what?

[noises1]

Early SX modules were thru-hole components (and the later modules with recessed knobs were SMD). They had dual-sidechain limiter and EQ on every input, and a preamp configuration that made peak distortion almost impossible as the limiter gain cell was placed between the "head amp" and preamp ie very close to the input.

I few issues though: the preamp gain change became cramped near maximum gain; only 1 Aux output: input PFL & output stereo / mono headphone monitoring. There was a Film Module to add PPM & more headphone monitoring options but this module occupied the space of 2 input modules.

In late 1980's the SX was a game-changer, but their great features are now common-place in new gear

[Patrick Tresch]

For music lovers there is also the SX-VT line wich has rare specs :

"Wide bandwidth10Hz to 200kHz, suitable for SACD and next converters generations"

 

Sonosax pream use proprietary tech than others and permits such a wide bandwidth.

People love to speak about 32bit headroom but first you have to get some sound to record. 😉 

 

Patrick

[bigidibo]

9 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

Good then.  I really liked the sound of the 1980s Sax mixers, and even though they were much more expensive than most alternatives they were quite popular among feature film mixers.  All audio electronics, including Sax, have improved since then, but if the price is good and you have some people who can check it out for you (and maybe even do mods) then great.  Do you plan to use if for dialog or music or what?

 

That's is nice to hear! I bet it sounds nice. Most times I even prefer the older slower sounding units than  the new, modern era. But of course depends on who is making, I doubt SX making a lot compromises. 

 

I mostly work with movie soundtracks now and sometimes touch a bit post-production, so curious if passing dialogs and SFX would benefits from it as well... But mostly music. 

7 hours ago, noises1 said:

Early SX modules were thru-hole components (and the later modules with recessed knobs were SMD). They had dual-sidechain limiter and EQ on every input, and a preamp configuration that made peak distortion almost impossible as the limiter gain cell was placed between the "head amp" and preamp ie very close to the input.

I few issues though: the preamp gain change became cramped near maximum gain; only 1 Aux output: input PFL & output stereo / mono headphone monitoring. There was a Film Module to add PPM & more headphone monitoring options but this module occupied the space of 2 input modules.

In late 1980's the SX was a game-changer, but their great features are now common-place in new gear

 

Yes, would be nice to have more AUXs, but sometimes limits make you more creative  

The cramping is a bit worrying... but I think I could live with that. But would be nice to check that in real life scenario...

Thanks for the info, that's really helpful!

2 hours ago, Patrick Tresch said:

For music lovers there is also the SX-VT line wich has rare specs :

"Wide bandwidth10Hz to 200kHz, suitable for SACD and next converters generations"

 

Sonosax pream use proprietary tech than others and permits such a wide bandwidth.

People love to speak about 32bit headroom but first you have to get some sound to record. 😉 

 

Patrick

 

That would be something Maybe someday

I think they share the same design in MD2D..? Which I really love as a tool. Next-level DAC and preamps.

 

 

[Patrick Tresch]

45 minutes ago, bigidibo said:

 

I think they share the same design in MD2D..? Which I really love as a tool. Next-level DAC and preamps.

 

 

 

The M2D2 is totally another tech based on dual AD (that came out before Zaxcom's and is a bit different). The M2D2 is really close to the AD8+ preamp and R4+ recorder series wich have a bit less compromise due to more power draw capability. The SX-ST VT is 100% analog no AD conversion before EQ. As there is no AD there is no need of a dual AD structure. Still the best for a battery powered audio preamp and mixer.

[bigidibo]

5 minutes ago, Patrick Tresch said:

 

The M2D2 is totally another tech based on dual AD (that came out before Zaxcom's and is a bit different). The M2D2 is really close to the AD8+ preamp and R4+ recorder series wich have a bit less compromise due to more power draw capability. The SX-ST VT is 100% analog no AD conversion before EQ. As there is no AD there is no need of a dual AD structure. Still the best for a battery powered audio preamp and mixer.

 

Thanks for the info! That SX-ST VT with M2D2 conversion, would be something...  So selling kidney it is :))

[SYSOUNDS]

Hey just PM’d you. Would be happy to run some tests for you if you’d like 

[Philip Perkins]

As I recall there were "film modules" made for this board by a few 3rd parties.  I also recall that they didn't seem to be as high quality as the Sax electronics and that my friends had issues with them.  Back then giving up 2 channels was worth the extra flexibility (nice at first, later required on big jobs), today when many more channels are considered minimum that would not work out so well for a show with a lot of speaking parts.  For music these could be very nice given some clean up and maybe new caps, but for many if us they are still short a workable number of channels to be really useful.\

 

[IronFilm]

17 hours ago, Patrick Tresch said:

The M2D2 is totally another tech based on dual AD (that came out before Zaxcom's and is a bit different).

Wait, how old is the Sonosax M2D2? I thought it is only a handful of years old. Didn't realize it was older than Zaxcom's dual gain recorders. 

If so, then how come Sonosax couldn't sell their dual gain SX-R4+ in the USA??

[Masaki Hatsui]

I just want to correct the exact history :

Zaxcom's Dual ADC technology, so called NeverClip was introduced with Nomad's preamplifier.

I bought mine on winter 2012, if I remember well the machine was out around 2011.

At that time there was not a single portable recorder on the market using this technology. Sonosax's flagship recorder at that time was SX-62R, which had a superb preamplifier but with single ADC.

According to their newsletter, Sonosax started selling their first Dual ADC technology with its SX-R4+, on 2015.

[ivanovich]

great discussion. i’ve found that location mixing desks for dialogue lack the mixing and matrices that music mixers typically have. 

i’ve been searching for years for the right mixer but haven’t found the right one. wish smaller format consoles had a decent bussing matrix. 4 ontop of L/R buss would be perfect. 8 would be even better but overkill for dialogue. The Amek BCM-something is pretty nice but hard to find and the channel strips are densely populated like manhattan. Hard to service.