Blackdawg Posted Tuesday at 08:43 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 08:43 PM I'm looking at getting better sync devices. Just using the Zaxcom CL and RX200 is not working out for me. Hell even have had issues hardwired (FS7 and VRaptor). So both of these products offer what I need both Genelock and Time code on the same units. Looking for any experience with either or both. I'd be using my Mixpre 10 for this and sending Genlock to it via BNC and TC via the Aux port. Currently have FS7 and a RED V Raptor camera we are trying to get to work better together. Have a 2 ish frame offset now and the recorder doesn't line up with either of them. Although closer to the the FS7. They were all hardwired together for a bunch of interviews and none of them are in sync. Obviously the Ultra Sync 1 is a lot cheaper than the ACN-CL's. But what is the range of them? Will they work over a 200m radius outdoors? Thanks Quote
humbuk Posted Tuesday at 08:55 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 08:55 PM wordclock and genlock can also be done https://www.betso.eu/sbox-2rf Quote
Derek H Posted Tuesday at 09:13 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 09:13 PM Only thing I can say about the ultra sync boxes is that they blink differently than every other timecode box and slate I’ve ever seen and that was enough to make me hate them. That and the mini RF connectors they use. I’d recommend Ambient. Or Denecke. If size on camera is not an issue and you’re on a budget look for some used ACLs. Any generation really. Wireless timecode is overrated if you ask me. Quote
Blackdawg Posted Tuesday at 09:57 PM Author Report Posted Tuesday at 09:57 PM 42 minutes ago, Derek H said: Only thing I can say about the ultra sync boxes is that they blink differently than every other timecode box and slate I’ve ever seen and that was enough to make me hate them. That and the mini RF connectors they use. I’d recommend Ambient. Or Denecke. If size on camera is not an issue and you’re on a budget look for some used ACLs. Any generation really. Wireless timecode is overrated if you ask me. I mean the Ambient boxes are "wireless timecode" on their own UHF network basically. So you think they aren't worth it? Or were you referring to the Zaxcom CL and RX200 i have now? One pro for the Ambients is the Lemo output cable straight to a RED camera. We don't have Komodo's yet but plan on replacing the FS7s with them. I hate extra cabling on cameras. 1 hour ago, humbuk said: wordclock and genlock can also be done https://www.betso.eu/sbox-2rf Saw these but was kind of turned off from the fact in their own video on that page if you pause it none of the TC numbers on screen line up. Which seems to kind of be the point of it. So if it can't do that, I'm no considering it. Quote
The Documentary Sound Guy Posted Tuesday at 10:08 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 10:08 PM I have to think the solution is buried somewhere in the camera settings rather than getting new equipment. If they aren't playing nicely even when hardwired directly, I don't see how changing timecode boxes will help. I don't have any particular insight into using that particular combination of cameras, but maybe you could test using the V Raptor as the master clock (since you mention it's the farthest out of sync), and see if the FS7 and MixPre follow it more closely. If that doesn't work, try the FS7 as master. That's kind of an ugly approach ... not one that would be my first choice, but if you've exhausted your options to the point of buying new hardware, maybe it's worth testing. Quote
r.paterson Posted Tuesday at 10:37 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 10:37 PM Ultra sync is on the way out.. In UK not supported anymore. Atamos shut down the UK operation and moved to Australia, you can't get spares, specifically replacement batteries. if you buy new you should be good for a couple of years. Quote
Derek H Posted Tuesday at 10:45 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 10:45 PM 43 minutes ago, Blackdawg said: I mean the Ambient boxes are "wireless timecode" on their own UHF network basically. So you think they aren't worth it? Or were you referring to the Zaxcom CL and RX200 i have now? I was just talking about wireless timecode systems in general vs the traditional jam it once manually and attach method as it relates to my suggestion of trying to find some older Ambient Lockits without wireless sync. Some people love their wireless timecode setups but it does introduce more ways for things to go wrong. I’ve always thought of it as a solution looking for a problem. Quote
Eric Posted Wednesday at 03:44 AM Report Posted Wednesday at 03:44 AM I use the Ambient lock-it slate and Ambient ACL-204 sync boxes for some shoots. I can easily jam one of these devices from my recorder and then send a wireless jam (once) to the rest of the units via the ACN network. You can also send a continuous jam every <not sure every how many seconds>. I go the jam one unit and send the wireless sync (once) route. Resync at lunch and send a wireless sync (once) to the other units. It'll even tell you how many of them took the TC jam. Similar to @Derek H suggestion where it is a hard jam at one point. Just sent wirelessly from one unit to the others instead of having to jam all boxes & slate physically with a cable. Both ways work. The old ACL-204 have genlock as well out the sync BNC, I believe. I don't know if it jams the genlock via ACN as I have have never used the genlock (sync) feature. The older ones have genlock too, just no display or ACN wirelss sync ability. I have used those too. Quote
Mungo Posted Wednesday at 07:29 AM Report Posted Wednesday at 07:29 AM + 1 for Ambient. I've been using that system for years and really rely on it. You should have to know about TC and sync is about to set it right. There are many options in the menu that may lead to fail. After FW updates you have to reactivate the genlock function for instance. Over here in Germany there's the advantage that you can expand your setup easily with rental units or even buy older units from the used market. All devices will function together without an issue, even old CL204 and older slates will receive continuous jam from brand new Lockit CL and vice versa. Ambient's service is also quite good (at least if you are based here). Quote
Blackdawg Posted Wednesday at 06:14 PM Author Report Posted Wednesday at 06:14 PM 19 hours ago, The Documentary Sound Guy said: I have to think the solution is buried somewhere in the camera settings rather than getting new equipment. If they aren't playing nicely even when hardwired directly, I don't see how changing timecode boxes will help. I don't have any particular insight into using that particular combination of cameras, but maybe you could test using the V Raptor as the master clock (since you mention it's the farthest out of sync), and see if the FS7 and MixPre follow it more closely. If that doesn't work, try the FS7 as master. That's kind of an ugly approach ... not one that would be my first choice, but if you've exhausted your options to the point of buying new hardware, maybe it's worth testing. We do plan on doing some more testing as it's very odd and would like an answer of some kind. Not a terrible idea to slave off the RED though. Will try that. My hope is adding Genlock to everything helps. No so much just a new timecode box. Genlock should guarantee things are all counting frames exactly the same. We've done this in our hall with FR7 cameras and two audio workstations with great success. 14 hours ago, Eric said: I use the Ambient lock-it slate and Ambient ACL-204 sync boxes for some shoots. I can easily jam one of these devices from my recorder and then send a wireless jam (once) to the rest of the units via the ACN network. You can also send a continuous jam every <not sure every how many seconds>. I go the jam one unit and send the wireless sync (once) route. Resync at lunch and send a wireless sync (once) to the other units. It'll even tell you how many of them took the TC jam. Similar to @Derek H suggestion where it is a hard jam at one point. Just sent wirelessly from one unit to the others instead of having to jam all boxes & slate physically with a cable. Both ways work. The old ACL-204 have genlock as well out the sync BNC, I believe. I don't know if it jams the genlock via ACN as I have have never used the genlock (sync) feature. The older ones have genlock too, just no display or ACN wirelss sync ability. I have used those too. Thanks for your data point and workflow. Even without Genlock you've not had issues? I'm leaning towards the ACN units as Ambient is just a tried a true brand. Not finding any complaints. 19 hours ago, r.paterson said: Ultra sync is on the way out.. In UK not supported anymore. Atamos shut down the UK operation and moved to Australia, you can't get spares, specifically replacement batteries. if you buy new you should be good for a couple of years. hm well that doesn't sound great. bummer. 19 hours ago, Derek H said: I was just talking about wireless timecode systems in general vs the traditional jam it once manually and attach method as it relates to my suggestion of trying to find some older Ambient Lockits without wireless sync. Some people love their wireless timecode setups but it does introduce more ways for things to go wrong. I’ve always thought of it as a solution looking for a problem. ah, understood. Buying used gear for me is tricky with the organization I work at. So not always the best option. The Ambient boxes do allow for just jam sync though. 10 hours ago, Mungo said: + 1 for Ambient. I've been using that system for years and really rely on it. You should have to know about TC and sync is about to set it right. There are many options in the menu that may lead to fail. After FW updates you have to reactivate the genlock function for instance. Over here in Germany there's the advantage that you can expand your setup easily with rental units or even buy older units from the used market. All devices will function together without an issue, even old CL204 and older slates will receive continuous jam from brand new Lockit CL and vice versa. Ambient's service is also quite good (at least if you are based here). Thanks for your info. I think I'll end up going this route. Is more expensive but seems worth it. Quote
Derek H Posted Wednesday at 11:34 PM Report Posted Wednesday at 11:34 PM You’ll be happy with Ambient. Quote
edward chick Posted Thursday at 01:27 AM Report Posted Thursday at 01:27 AM I’ve been using Ambient Nano Lockit and Master Lockit for many years, they are rock solid. Quote
Tim Norris Posted Thursday at 05:01 AM Report Posted Thursday at 05:01 AM After years of use, I decommissioned my Ultra Sync stuff a year ago. It seems they are not supported in the US, either. Cheers, Tim Quote
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