Need advice for a hot tub reality scene using necklace mics

[joshneal]

I need to record a scene where up to 4 people will be in a hot tub that is also a boat.  I was told that basically the entire boat is a hot tub.  We will be filming from 1 or 2 follow boats, distance unknown but guessing in the 10-15’ range.  So I have 2 main concerns - how to mic shirtless cast with a necklace rig (booming not being a practical option), and how to get that audio transmitted and/or recorded.  

 

For the mics I will likely use countryman B6s or something similar and run those into some kind of necklace rig.  My main concern is determining how to build this…  So I want to know if anyone else has experience building a rig like this and what materials were used?  The pictures below are from rigs made for the show Love Island.  Mainly I would want to figure out what to use for the windshield the mic sits inside - anyone know what these might be?  And also if anyone knows of a good necklace that could function as the base that would be helpful as well.

 

And then for the wireless transmission and/or internal recording.  I’m wondering if I rented Lectro WM transmitters and had the cast wear them normally and thus have them submerged in hot water - do you think there is any chance of getting a strong enough signal from a follow boat?  My gut says it’s extremely doubtful given my one other experience trying to do something similar.  Anyone else tried something like this?

 

  So another option at that point would be to get something like the Aquapac:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1803482-REG/aquapac_q148_radio_mic_mini_waterproof.html/overview?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&store=420&smpm=ba_f2_lar&lsft=BI%3A6879&gad_source=1

  And then just use transmitters with an internal recording function.  However I don’t think I can trust the aquapac to hold up over the course of an entire scene fully submerged.  The specs say the Aquapac “features an IPX6 rating, allowing it to be temporarily immersed in water when sealed without leaking, but not continually submerged”.  And I’m not aware of any model of transmitter that is waterproof (fully submersible) and has an internal recording function (doesn’t need to transmit simultaneously), but if there is something out there, let me know.

 

  So the next option would be to attach the transmitters to the side/edge of the “hot tub boat” and try to conceal them with the cast’s bodies.  This certainly isn’t ideal for filming but I don’t know what other option we have.  Im chewing my way through possibilities at the moment.  If you have any ideas about how this can be done or suggestions for gear please chime in!  Any help is greatly appreciated. 

[Philip Perkins]

You won't get much of any transmission from a submerged TX.  They have to be out of the water no matter how you waterproof them.  Are you working in the ocean, in salt water?  I found that many rental houses would not rent TX to me if I was going to use them in salt water.   Aquapacs can work fine for many hours if they aren't submerged all the time.   The necklace mics you show are pretty elegant, actually.  What mic is inside the ball?

[Jason Nicholas]

@Dr Neil Hillman MPSE might have a suggestion here?

[joshneal]

Thanks for your input Philip!  Yeah I pretty much figured submerged wireless wasn't viable just wanted to see if anyone else had tried.  As far as the aquapacs - do you think they could reliably be fully submerged in hot water for a several hours?  I'm wouldn't want to gamble a transmitter for any less than that as I wont know how long we would film that scene for.  But we will be filming in freshwater so that is one less concern.  The mic in the photo is a Point Source Audio CO-8WL.

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

Yeah, Tx flat out don't work underwater.  Water blocks UHF, period.

 

What is camera doing?  & Lighting?  My approach would be to plant mics rigged next to whatever lighting they are using, especially if the hot tub is small enough that you'd be able to rig a cardioid over the centre.  It might well depend on exactly what is planned, but I presume camera will be rigging cameras somehow.  You should consider the same.

 

Assuming you do end up figuring out a necklace mic, are the camera angles fixed enough that you can plant the transmitters behind the actors?  Or do they need freedom of movement?  It may be possible to rig transmitters at the nape of the neck under the hair of female talent, but that will require lots of help and only works if hairstyles permit.  Male talent is more difficult.

 

I'm not aware of any Tx that are both waterproof and have a record function, but the Q5X AquaMic is waterproof to 10m, so should survive without an Aquapac (Aquapacs are bulky and hard to hide).  I believe Lectro also has an IP rated Tx.  If you do go with Tx that can't record, do a bag drop on the boat with the recorder, and then transmit from the bag drop back to the follow boat on a second hop for monitoring.  This will make sure you still get the recording even if you are out of range temporarily.  It also lets you use a more robust antenna on the Tx side (probably dipole, or sharkfin if you think the follow boat will reliably be in the same direction relative to the floating hot tub).

 

If you want a slightly more water resistant Tx with recording to go inside the Aquapac, Zaxcom's ZMTFlex is encased in silicone and designed for sports use.  Not fully waterproof, but probably slightly more water resistant than others.  Get some silica gel packs to put inside the Aquapacs to absorb condensation.

[r.paterson]

When i put my tx /tx recorder in aquapacs, I put the TX / tx recorder in a condom first, then into aquapac if aquapac splits you still have a chance.. 

[Conor]

I think based on the info given I would be looking at TC recorders like a Tentacle Track E or Lectro PDR in an aquapac with B3s. Placemics rigged around the tubs. Forget about reliable RF from underwater to a follow boat.

[DanieldH]

For "Player of Ibiza" we used necklaces with 3d printed shells. Inside where 6061 covered with fur. The narrative of the show allowed the use of these visible lavs as well as TX. For some water rich scene, we used TrackEs. Though they are also not watertight, any water related damage produces a lot less cost.

[Philip Perkins]

I would suggest that you get with everyone else on this production about how to get it done, and what their tolerance is for seeing mics and TX.  I'd also advise that you be clear with production that they must fully insure any gear used in or near water, especially talent wireless.  If it was me I would use ONLY rental gear, or gear the production has bought for the show for this work, not my personal gear that I would expect to be able to use on jobs after this one.  In truth, equipment used in water kind of becomes an expendable.

[Peter Mega]

https://www.odyo.dk
 

These work very well. We used them on a show in Fiji for 3 weeks with 12 cast. They held up very well with salt water, sunscreen and bug spray soaking them all day, every day. The lav cable/insulation, no so much but we got through with plenty of spares lavs. 

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

I just saw those in Trew's newsletter.  Nice to get a real-world recommendation for them.  Was considering getting a couple to try on my next show.

[joshneal]

Thanks to everyone that responded.  I think my main takeaways will be to use lectro PDRs (rented of course) with aquapacs and the Odyo necklaces.  I think the Odyo is the perfect solution for the necklaces and I’m favoring stand alone recorders rather than trying to get stable wireless from an exposed transmitter boat to boat.  I would still potentially be open to going wireless, dropping a bag on the picture boat and hopping to a follow bag for monitoring but only if there was a secure dry place for the primary bag.  But that still has the issue of the transmitters being above water, not to mention more links in the chain for something to go wrong.  I think PDRs in aquapacs is the least complicated and probably the most reliable way to get a clean track on each talent, while having minimal obstacles for the visual.  As far as monitoring I’m going to see if we can’t plant a mic somewhere just to get enough audio for the producers to hear the conversation.  Thanks for helping me work through this, waiting to hear back from production atm!

[r.paterson]

2 hours ago, joshneal said:

Thanks to everyone that responded.  I think my main takeaways will be to use lectro PDRs (rented of course) with aquapacs and the Odyo necklaces.  I think the Odyo is the perfect solution for the necklaces and I’m favoring stand alone recorders rather than trying to get stable wireless from an exposed transmitter boat to boat.  I would still potentially be open to going wireless, dropping a bag on the picture boat and hopping to a follow bag for monitoring but only if there was a secure dry place for the primary bag.  But that still has the issue of the transmitters being above water, not to mention more links in the chain for something to go wrong.  I think PDRs in aquapacs is the least complicated and probably the most reliable way to get a clean track on each talent, while having minimal obstacles for the visual.  As far as monitoring I’m going to see if we can’t plant a mic somewhere just to get enough audio for the producers to hear the conversation.  Thanks for helping me work through this, waiting to hear back from production atm!

If using PDR use lith energizer AAA batts.. Only reliable run time especially in an aquapac.. Should get 6 hrs. 

[Olle Sjostrom]

When you say the whole boat I basically a hot tub, is it in fact just a floating hot tub? Or is there some motor on it, or anywhere where crew could be sitting?

[inspire]

Point Source Audio CO-8WL, it seem interesting, cool choice! Also the first photo of the necklace looks nice.

[VASI]

Hei @joshneal,

 

In what direction - solution you have choose?