First shoot with 16mm film... what do I need to know?

[LDstudios]

 

Hey all, 

 

For the first time in ~10 years of doing this, I've been booked on a 'film' shoot. I feel like I'm starting all over again! 

 

They are shooting on a 16mm ARRI with no timecode module. They tried getting it installed, but the round-the-world trip and logistics didn't pan out - timecode slate will be used. 

 

Is this as simple as it sounds? No sound to camera? No audio return? No playback of takes? Match the frame rate, jam the slate, and go? 

 

Things are never as simple as they seem - what am I missing here?

 

 

 

 

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

Talk to post, make sure they are expecting TC frame rate to match.  There are some circumstances where you'll use a different frame rate than the camera is running at (mostly when shooting for NTSC TV).

Also, if they are using video assist, you may need to run TC to the video recorder (if used for playback).

There's lots of details about how it used to be done, but nobody remembers these days, so you need to talk through workflow with camera & post and make sure everyone is on the same page.

And you'd better make sure all the slate calls are audible.  Easy to get lazy, but now there's no crutch.

[LDstudios]

42 minutes ago, The Documentary Sound Guy said:

Talk to post, make sure they are expecting TC frame rate to match.  There are some circumstances where you'll use a different frame rate than the camera is running at (mostly when shooting for NTSC TV).

Also, if they are using video assist, you may need to run TC to the video recorder (if used for playback).

There's lots of details about how it used to be done, but nobody remembers these days, so you need to talk through workflow with camera & post and make sure everyone is on the same page.

And you'd better make sure all the slate calls are audible.  Easy to get lazy, but now there's no crutch.

 

Thanks for the reply! 

 

It is well timed with a meeting I just had. Camera/sound/processing/post sync tests have all come up successful at matching frame rates.

They are running a video assist, but the recorder has no TC or audio input. I've offered, but they said they're happy to sync it in post too. 

 

Copy, copy on the slate calls. Dedicated slate mic added to the list. 

 

Thanks again! 

[Ben B]

I shot a feature on the Arriflex 416 a few years ago. We had a timecode slate and that was basically it. We had one small SD video feed for the script and director but i basically mixed the whole film without picture. We didn't have any video recorder so no playback was possible but i guess if you have one i'd send a scratch track to the video recorder so they can playback a take with sound.

Make sure not to miss the slate call and to slate every shot obviously but otherwise, in my experience, it was pretty straight forward.

 

The camera is pretty quiet for a film camera but i still heard it on quiet scene. There's not much you can do about that.

[fieldsound]

I have worked with film a few times now and generally relied heavily on the tc slate. Various levels of budget and resources. In order not to waste film, we’d get the slate in and roll sound, verbally ID the slate and then roll camera to immediately grab the sticks. 
 

if you can get a blimp for the camera I’d certainly recommend it, some models (even ARRIS) can be loud. When I worked with experienced ACs they knew which film mags were louder than others and we avoided them on intimate scenes. 
 

I hope you enjoy the experience! 

[Philip Perkins]

If you haven't done a 16mm sync sound shoot before you will probably be surprised at how noisy "silent" 16mm cameras actually are.  They were "silent" only in comparison to non-silent cameras (like Arri S, Bolex etc), they are still quite noisy, and this is when those cameras were brand new.  Worn cameras become noisier, the worst were cameras bought (very) used by newbie DPs to shoot their first dramatic etc films (the cameras could be adjusted to be either be slightly quieter or have the most accurate registration possible, but not both at the same time).   My diplomatic skills were on full display in advocating for an optical flat in front of the lens (the lens acts like a trumpet broadcasting the camera noise right at the actor) and some sort of blimp over the magazine (which was often the AC's jacket).  On a few shoots the wardrobe people kindly cut up one of my furni pads and made us a mag-blimp for the camera.  These solutions helped a little, but just a little.  An upside of film shooting is that the director can't roll for hours at a time--the film runs out every 11 min (and you can put the boom down for a minute).

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

Re: Camera noise, custom made magazine dampers ("barnies") absolutely used to be a thing.  And they did help, especially for high frequencies.  They work better when custom-fitted and thick.  Getting wardrobe to custom fit something made out of furnie pads is a great idea, especially if layered.  Otherwise, you'd have to hope the production got one included with the rental.

[Jim Rillie]

As Philip mentioned an optical flat plain glass “filter in front of the lens on the matte box also called B glass is essential, and a Barney for the mag as Doc sound guy memtioned. I used to offer up my leather jacket if camera had no Barney.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

You should do a test with the crew. As even the choice of the compendium can have an impact on the vibration noises. The magazines are also a big factor of sound if it's an old not cared one. The bad film loop can also give you problem. Is it SR1 or 416? Big difference in the evolution of the cameras. But film passing through the gate is  such a sweet sound ... 😉 

[Philip Perkins]

5 hours ago, Patrick Tresch said:

You should do a test with the crew. As even the choice of the compendium can have an impact on the vibration noises. The magazines are also a big factor of sound if it's an old not cared one. The bad film loop can also give you problem. Is it SR1 or 416? Big difference in the evolution of the cameras. But film passing through the gate is  such a sweet sound ... 😉 

Until you need to get rid of it in post....

[Trey LaCroix CAS]

I don't know which Arri you are shooting on but if it's the SR1 prepare to make, or better, have camera make a barney for it. Those f**kers are loud without one. On one of the few 16mm films I mixed we had to hastily make one on set out of a cardboard box with duvetyne lining the inside and outside. It became manageable at that point but post still had to work to take some out. You'll find better maintained they are the quieter they are.

 

Have fun shooting film! It changes the dynamic on the set in such a great way and forces everyone to be efficient. It's almost like they figured it out decades ago!

[allistair]

So much good advice here. I'll add that you should stress the importance of the slate to the AD, AC and whoever else is relevant. People are so used to having TC sync or camera audio as a backup that they don't fully understand the headache they're creating for post when they cut before the tail slate or "just get something really quick" with the last few feet of film on a roll.

[Philip Perkins]

Many younger people do not understand that film cameras mostly do not have timecode, sound recording or any other form of marking footage as it is shot.  Post the rebellion against the old-school Hollywood style "slate everything" style of shooting that video allows (if the camera gets even gets just a scratch track of some kind), it is sometimes overlooked that if you don't shoot some kind of piece of writing saying what the shot is or where it might go in the film then you are going to have a very frustrating and extremely time-consuming task figuring that out in post.  ACs and soundies who insist on slating can get very unpopular on the set.  And then are heroes in post!  Intelligent producers understand this.