XLR Cables

[inspire]

XLR Cables

 

I am looking for good XLR cables and arguments why one is better than the other. (These cables are for Matched Pair microphones).

 

https://www.thomann.de/intl/vovox_link_protect_s_2x500_xlr_mat.htm

 

https://www.in-akustik.com/s25-connect-212-audio-xlr-00632120153

 

What does Matched Pair mean and does it matter to you in case of XLR Cables?

[fieldsound]

The above linked options are incredibly expensive, and I sincerely doubt they will offer any sonic advantage over a Canare star-quad cable with Neutrik XLR connectors.  Quad cables are preferred by many of us working on location due to their strong RFI shielding. 
 

The only way you can “match” cables is by cutting them to the same length and using the same connectors. XLR cables are very easy to build, even if you’re inexperienced with a soldering iron.

Just use a multimeter on your cable after building it. If it has continuity on the correct pins you are in business. Hope this helps. 
 

[borjam]

I agree with @fieldsound. Those cables are pure audiophoolery. Paired?? That would only made sense if they were extremely poor cables with strong microphonic effects, it would be desiderable for them to at least misbehave similarly 😄

 

Now, seriously. What makes a good cable?

 

- Good solderings. I have seen cheap cables so bad, they were unbalanced. I am not kidding

- Good connectors. Poor connectors can have the habit to get stuck into expensive equipment. I would stick to Neutrik and Switchcraft. 

- "Architecture". Star quad cables reject interference better. Especially for long runs they can be much better.

- Handling. How good does it handle when rolling it? Does it get twisted easily? Is it robust, ie, does it withstand being stepped on, etc?  Or, depending on your needs, is it too thick or too thin?

 

Good cables are not $5 a piece, but the audiophool people are rather insane. I have seen really expensive Ethernet cables "for audio". 

 

 

[Rick Reineke]

I was always partial to Canare cables. I have some star-quads that are close to 30 years old which have seen all kinds of abuse on documentary shoots and live music gigs. Some of the connector boots have been replaced though due to age. I bought the bulk cable stock, Neutrik connectors and soldered them myself which saved about half the cost of buying  them pre-made.

[Philip Perkins]

Anymore I buy them from Audiopile.  Decent quality, good prices, nice people.  https://www.audiopile.net/

[vin]

Belden, Canare, Mogami, Gotham, there are so many great cable manufacturers. Get a star quad if you are running a long cable to a microphone. Otherwise a normal 2 core shielded cable is fine for line level signals. 

You can use Neutrik, Amphenol, Switchcraft XLR connectors. Dont go to aliexpress or some cheap chinese knockoff site. Go to professional places like Redco, Markertek for connectors and even cables. 

it is not necessary to use lead-free solder for this but i have been using lead-free solder for more than 12 years now. A decent soldering iron like the Goot FX288 with temperature control is good, there are many chinese companies too which are now making fantastic soldering equipment - and they are not as expensive as JBC or Metcal, but even surpass the performance of these big manufacturers. 

There are some, only some good youtube videos to learn to solder properly, many of them are no good. Choose from who can be seen as professional, you will be able to discern... 

And of course, practise, a few times at least. As you keep doing it you get better at it. 

 

And STOP looking at those STUPID "audiophile' Hifi cables, both the cables in your links are these. Any cable and connectors from the manufacturers i listed will do a great job. There is no need for bloody silver and gold etc in cables. Yes it is good to have OFC, but there are levels of OFC and for the work we do in the field one does not need the .0000001% kind of stuff. None of these super expensive hifi cables have been tested properly in a lab, they dont supply any test details, note this. However, for any cable from any of the manufacturers listed above, full specs can be found, which is not possible unless they put the product to rigorous testing... 

Just my 2 cents.. 

-vin
 

[inspire]

First of all, thank you to everyone who replied. I agree 100% with the very first answer — it explains a lot. Good shielding is essential, and the cable in my first link basically has none. At the same time, when I read user reviews on Thomann for the Vovox cables, many of them are overwhelmingly positive.
One example comes from a colleague of mine who recorded a choir about a year ago in a location where power cables were running inside the wall, and he placed his microphone cables close to them. As a result, strong mains hum leaked into his recordings, creating what he described as “cracks” or “popping” caused by interference.
Another thing is capacitance, which I don’t have much detailed information about.
The third point is connectivity. Gold-plated contacts are, in my opinion, a “must-have,” especially for low-level signals and maybe also for higher frequencies. Even though audio frequencies are low compared to RF, when the signal is very weak, it can matter.
My colleagues gave me a gift card for my 30-year work anniversary, and I’m planning to use it to invest in some good XLR cables. They will be used for recording low-level signals with high-quality condenser microphones.

[DanieldH]

4 hours ago, vin said:

You can use Neutrik, Amphenol, Switchcraft XLR connectors. Dont go to aliexpress or some cheap chinese knockoff site. 

I hate to be a wiseass, but there are various high quality connectors and low profile mods offered on Aliexpress. Most are based on Switchcraft, Neutrik or Rean and those I have used do work as promised. 

You can also find well assembled cables with various special connectors e.g. to cameras with audio, video and TC signals or DC power both with original and remakes of e.g. Lemo and Hirose.

[Roland Harris]

Also depends what you find easiest to buy in your location. Here in the UK I mainly use the excellent Van Damme cables (and Neutrik connectors): mini-starquad and standard starquad for most normal balanced cables, their blue series 2 and 4 pair multicores for MS and DMS respectively (coils nicely too), and their tour grade classic XKE mic cable for extremely long runs (where capacitance of starquad rolls of the highs too much: when/if that matters will depend on your usage).

 

Cheers,

 

Roland

[borjam]

4 hours ago, inspire said:

First of all, thank you to everyone who replied. I agree 100% with the very first answer — it explains a lot. Good shielding is essential, and the cable in my first link basically has none. At the same time, when I read user reviews on Thomann for the Vovox cables, many of them are overwhelmingly positive.

You know how that is, most people buying overpriced stuff never stop displaying their happiness 😉

 

And beware some fancy looking, pricey "high end" interconnects, who knows who makes their pretty connectors and what their tolerances are. 

 

4 hours ago, inspire said:

One example comes from a colleague of mine who recorded a choir about a year ago in a location where power cables were running inside the wall, and he placed his microphone cables close to them. As a result, strong mains hum leaked into his recordings, creating what he described as “cracks” or “popping” caused by interference.

Always keep a distance, but star-quad cables (traditionally used for railroad signalling) are supposed to be very good against low frequency interference.

Anyway, remember, electromagnetic fields decrease proportionally to the square of the distance.

 

4 hours ago, inspire said:

Another thing is capacitance, which I don’t have much detailed information about.

It will cause a high frequency roll-off depending on cable length. But microphone distance to the "victim" also does. 

 

4 hours ago, inspire said:

The third point is connectivity. Gold-plated contacts are, in my opinion, a “must-have,” especially for low-level signals and maybe also for higher frequencies. Even though audio frequencies are low compared to RF, when the signal is very weak, it can matter.

As far as I know, the most interesting property of gold plated contacts is corrosion resistance. That said, I remember the "gold looking plated" connectors of a Monster brand cable whose contacts turned green when kept in a damp location.  

4 hours ago, inspire said:

My colleagues gave me a gift card for my 30-year work anniversary, and I’m planning to use it to invest in some good XLR cables. They will be used for recording low-level signals with high-quality condenser microphones.

You may order custom made cables from Audiosense.be for instance. I am sure they can make them out of top quality stuff. At least they sell Canare star-quad cables and Neutrik connectors. 

As cheap options, but not with star quad topology I have used Adam Hall cables on stage. Not expensive, and they have several series. The 5 star ones use Neutrik XLRs. 

 

https://www.adamhall.com/shop/en/cables-connectors/ready-made-cables/microphone-cables/xlr-cables

 

 

[inspire]

About cable capacitance and why it matters

In short: lower capacitance (pF/m) is better for microphone cables.
Capacitance acts together with the input impedance of the preamp to form a low-pass filter. The higher the capacitance, the earlier this filter starts rolling off the high frequencies.

With condenser microphones and weak signals, this effect can be audible, especially with longer cable runs. Sometimes people notice that one cable “sounds more open” or “clearer” without realizing that capacitance is the technical reason behind it.

This is why a cable with very low capacitance can preserve more detail and transient clarity, while a higher-capacitance cable may subtly soften or dull the top end. Depending on the situation, it can be either good or bad — but it’s definitely real and measurable.

cable_capacitance_comparison.pdf

[vin]

sure, of course, cable capacitance matters. it is fundamental. 

HOW MUCH it matters is the question. Are you recording YoYoMa playing the cello in a studio or are you recording dialog in a real world environment or even on a set in a sound stage with thousands of cu ft of air? Let's say the roll off leads to a flatness that probably ends around 15k. is that so bad for the dialog being recorded? 

I am not for a moment suggesting is it all OKAY to have a roll off. But I am interested in knowing and being concerned about the specs that actually MATTER for the job in hand. 

And HOW BAD is it with Belden/Canare/Mogami/Gotham cables is the question.  Please check the spec sheets of any standard XLR cable from say Belden and figure how good or bad it is in terms of this one spec... 

cheers

-vin

 

[vin]

3 hours ago, DanieldH said:

I hate to be a wiseass, but there are various high quality connectors and low profile mods offered on Aliexpress. Most are based on Switchcraft, Neutrik or Rean and those I have used do work as promised. 

You can also find well assembled cables with various special connectors e.g. to cameras with audio, video and TC signals or DC power both with original and remakes of e.g. Lemo and Hirose.

<are based on Switchcraft, Neutrik or Rean>

You live in Europe, don't you? What does 'based on' actually mean? 
They are copies. AKA Knockoff:

 

 /ˈnɒk.ɒf/ this is American 

 

 /ˈnɑːk.ɑːf/ this is everywhere else, heh

At times maybe they will do the job. At times maybe not as well. 

Even Neutrik makes stuff in china (REAN), are they really that good? I dont think so. I dont think their HO in Lichtenstein bothers. Because there are people to sell it to. 

Don't get me wrong - i don't think everything made in China is NG. Look at the DACs they are making - they knock the pants off hifi gear from the US and Europe priced many many times more. 

However, how many tentacle Sync boxes have come to me for repairs - because they did not use the Neutrik right angled EP jack and used some Aliexpress stuff - and this broke the female side, which i have to remove and solder in a new one... In this case it is penny wise and pound foolish.

How many times in my life have i used a knockoff connector? very very few and not out of choice... 

 

[DanieldH]

3 hours ago, vin said:

<are based on Switchcraft, Neutrik or Rean>

You live in Europe, don't you? What does 'based on' actually mean? 
They are copies. AKA Knockoff:

 

 /ˈnɒk.ɒf/ this is American 

 

 /ˈnɑːk.ɑːf/ this is everywhere else, heh

At times maybe they will do the job. At times maybe not as well. 

Even Neutrik makes stuff in china (REAN), are they really that good? I dont think so. I dont think their HO in Lichtenstein bothers. Because there are people to sell it to. 

Don't get me wrong - i don't think everything made in China is NG. Look at the DACs they are making - they knock the pants off hifi gear from the US and Europe priced many many times more. 

However, how many tentacle Sync boxes have come to me for repairs - because they did not use the Neutrik right angled EP jack and used some Aliexpress stuff - and this broke the female side, which i have to remove and solder in a new one... In this case it is penny wise and pound foolish.

How many times in my life have i used a knockoff connector? very very few and not out of choice... 

 

I am talking about modifications of original connectors/parts of them. 
Please check out this post and the following posts:

You'll also find a photo I took there. I don't know or remember what product the middle unit is based on, but I am pretty sure that the left and right have genuine Rean respectively Neutrik housings and inserts. If these were counterfeit, these would be incredibly precise copies and likely wayyy too expensive to make economically sense as a counterfeit.
I have TC cables from there also with what I believe to be genuine NTP3RC and on the other end they are fitted with Lemo "compatible" connectors. These have a different appearance and outer shape and somehow "cheaper haptics" than the equivalent Lemo connector and thus, I'd neither categorize these as knock offs aka counterfeits, just as a compatible product. A comparable offer you could look at is item:1005005710121667. (I don't want to link to AE)
Besides that, there very well may be Neutrik or other counterfeits there. I suspect though, that if you set "shipping to" to somewhere in the EU you might find less counterfeits than with an, e.g. Central Asia setting. 

[Jim Feeley]

9 hours ago, inspire said:

This is why a cable with very low capacitance can preserve more detail and transient clarity, while a higher-capacitance cable may subtly soften or dull the top end. Depending on the situation, it can be either good or bad — but it’s definitely real and measurable.

 

There are a few (at least) people here who record music, including music made on acoustic instruments. I'd love to hear those people's take on capacitance in modern good cables, if there's a value below which it just doesn't matter, and what cables they think are good enough for careful music recording.

 

Jim

PS- I know this has been touched on implicitly here, but I'm all for explicit exposition.

[Chris Webb]

14 hours ago, Jim Feeley said:

 

There are a few (at least) people here who record music, including music made on acoustic instruments. I'd love to hear those people's take on capacitance in modern good cables, if there's a value below which it just doesn't matter, and what cables they think are good enough for careful music recording.

 

Jim

PS- I know this has been touched on implicitly here, but I'm all for explicit exposition.

 

I’ve been watching a lot of Rick Beato’s interviews lately where he talks to engineers like Glyn Johns. It is linked in the get back thread in general discussion. In his interview he talks about simply stringing cables together when they needed to record the beatles on the roof of Abbey Road. Worth a listen just to see how they recorded some of the most iconic rock albums. I’d love to know if they’d go back and change things and what they would consider improving. Anyways not a direct answer, and little off topic, but thought they might be of interest to others.