Jump to content
Honoring Jeff Wexler ×

Recommended Posts

Posted

How would documentary teams sync sound to film cameras back in the day before timecode sync?

 

With the quick nature of capturing moments, there is rarely a moment to get a slate in at the top or tail of a shot. I have a lav mounted to camera  to capture the motor when it triggers. But I'm curious what the original workflow was like and best practices I can use moving forward. Is this the kind of situation where I have to push for camera team to slow down so that we can get slate in? Or is there potential for the editors to be able to slog through and incrementally sync shots as the shutter sounds show up on the ISO of my continuous wav file? (Even though that would suck for them haha) 

  • 2 months later...
Posted

Well, in the days before Timecode, you'd hook up a Nagra with 'Pilotone' (two 't's or one?) and link that by cable to a generator on the camera (say a Bolex, or a Beaulieu, or an Éclair or an Arri - or, in the States, an Auricon) which would send a tone down the cable to the recorder. On playback, using a 'Comparator', the tone played off the tape was electronically compared with a fresh, new constant tone, and if the tape ran slow (lower-frequency recorded tone) the Comparator would speed up the Nagra motor  ..and vice versa.. so that the playback audio stayed in sync with the film ..and the correct-speed audio was thus transferred to magnetic film for in-sync editing with the film reels.

 

Cameras were modified to shoot a quick flash of light at the start of a shot while recording a beep, or bloop, on the audio - that served as a slate.

 

Nowadays, just have your camera-start button send a radio beep to your recording device, and have your sound recordist name the shot. Many recorders have a 'slate-mic'.

Posted

In the era described above the film camera motors did not have the ability to run in consistent sync, they needed a 60 (or 50) Hz signal from the Nagra (or other sync recorder)'s crystal sync generator to maintain exact sync speed.  At that time, many Nagras did not have this technology internally: we had to use what was then called the "Hershey Bar", a box about the size of an NP1 battery to feed sync to the whole system.  This was extremely cumbersome for docs, and so the early pioneers of real "verite" handheld as-it-happens docs invented ways of speed-controlling the camera motors and putting the sync signal generator inside the body of the sound recorder.  The equipment was custom built and based on "Accutron" watches and desk clocks, this was how the Maysle brothers films and big docs like "Woodstock" were done for instance.  Sync was achieved without cables, but there was considerable "homework" generated for post in the form of having to match a lot of film to the correct recordings--a LOT of "detective work" was involved on big jobs like concert shoots, even if the audio was voice slated and the camera rolls head-IDed.  As you would expect, in the "heat of battle" those niceties would often be forgotten...   As a soundie I kept a scribbled log as I went as best I could--often on a piece of white tape on the lid of the Nagra, which I would then transcribe to a little notebook, which would later be transcribed to a neater, but still hand written sound report for the editors.  Good camera ACs did something similar.  In my opinion the pinnacle of doco film-sound sync was the Aaton "Origine-C" system, that printed TC on the film and generated TC for the recorder, and had an automated sync-up system that was installed on the telecine machines.  This worked very well indeed.  Arri had a similar system.

Posted

I don't have anywhere near as much experience on pre-TC film docs.  But, nobody has mentioned the 'slate bump', where the mixer would gently tap the camera with the boom to create an audible and visual sync point.  Not ideal for verite where the camera would start rolling without warning (those get tail slated if people remember), but if there's even a slight moment before the action really gets going it can certainly help.

Posted

I did a lot of "mic-tap" slates in those days, but while they are better than no mark they took some experimenting with to get the sync right in post.  Tail slates only worked in docs if everyone was onboard with them and the action allowed it.  During verite action the shooters, with no indication of how much footage remained in their mags visible in their viewfinders often ran off the end of the roll before they could get a tail mark.  What used to be called a "digislate", a small box that displayed a number and triggered a beep on the audio recording, was faster for doco slates, but often had visibility issues (small numbers at a distance) and the shooter not really understanding which way to turn to see me for the tail slate ("OVER HERE!").  Believe me, the Aaton system was the way to go, but by the time it came along many docs were shooting in video.

Posted

David Waelder said, back in July 2013, in a post entitled '16mm film camera sync and pilotone' ( https://tinyurl.com/P1lot0ne ) the following..

 

"An accessory sync generator was available for the Beaulieu. It was literally an AC generator that screwed onto the side of the camera and coupled with the drive shaft. (That's true of all sync generators, of course, but the external mount on the Beaulieu makes the relationship conspicuous.) An output cable from the generator was permanently attached. It was only a few inches long and terminated in whatever connection the operator favored. (I think it came from the factory with stripped and tinned leads.) The whole contraption was about the size and shape of a canister of 35mm still film.

 

"That device would provide a 60 Hz signal when the camera was running at 24 fps. Achieving a true 24 frames run speed was not so simple. The camera had a variable speed motor that could be adjusted with a small speed dial - something about the size of an input pot on a Cooper mixer. There were no click stop settings; the full range of speeds from about 4 fps to about 70 fps was available from a single rotation of the dial. There was a tachometer to assist in accurate settings but it covered the whole range in less than an inch of meter swing. In practice, dialing in an accurate 24 fps was a bit tricky although the results were largely good enough if one used only one camera and there was no need to match to anything else. It was also possible to get a very close setting by using an external speed meter. Nagras were sometimes fitted with a QFM speed meter that facilitated more precise settings.

 

"The Beaulieu was never designed as a sync camera and doesn't run quietly at all. It runs noisy at a level equivalent to a Bolex or Arri S. Outdoors and with a barney it may be satisfactory but it would be difficult to record decent tracks in small or medium interiors.

 

"It's also not a sophisticated intermittent movement. The gate is fairly short and there is no pilot or register pin movement. Registration is a bit sloppy. (Perhaps that's just the look the director seeks.)

 

"It was designed before good negative stocks, like 7247, were developed. They tend to "light pipe" a little bit, making loading the camera without fogging half the roll a challenge. If you do end up using this tricky camera, have the AC contact me and I'll talk him through the loading technique. (It's not in the owner!s manual.)

 

"If I recall correctly, the proprietary batteries were 9.6 volts. One didn't have to use the cylindrical battery that mounted to the handgrip; one could connect external power to a DIN socket. Still, the odd voltage makes it more difficult to source a suitable power pack.

 

"The more I recall the particulars of this camera, the less suitable it appears. I would strongly encourage anyone determined to make a 16 mm film to get an Arri, an Aaton or an Eclair. The Beaulieu was more of a hobby camera than a professional instrument.

 

"Finally, if you decide to cut on film, I believe that Chinhda still has KEM editing machines available. We could work out a deal.

 

David"

 

On 7/24/2013 at 8:28 AM, mikewest said:

Pilot tone was 50 Hz in Europe and 60 Hz in the USA

 

The sync cable also allowed a blip sync facility with Arri cameras that caused a tone blip on your Nagra track

and fogged the coincident frame on the camera hence no slate needed - pretty smart !!!!!

 

Posted

The "bleep" or film fog slate was no more accurate than a mic tap--not a precise to the frame mark.  It got the assistant editor syncing dailies close, but then they needed to watch the film to see if they really hit sync.  Bolex had an actual sync motor for the Rex 4-5 and later cameras that really did hold sync, but the camera was so noisy that we never used it that way.   We found that if we had the budget to shoot sync sound it was simpler to rent a real sound camera for the day, especially a cheaper one like CP16.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...