Live PA in Germany, bit OT

[Bouke]

For the Germans here:
My GF (who lives in Germany) is at a relative small music festival now, and she was complaining one of the acts was LOUD.
Like, the audience was half way back in the field, wearing ear protection AND still have fingers in their ears.
Beside being stupid from the engineer, aren't there regulations in Germany? From everything I know, close to anything is bound by rules over there. (Including faxed copies of typewriter forms in triple at least....)

(I know there are officially regulations, but I would expect the festival would at least try to maintain them a little bit...)

 

 

 

[The Immoral Mr Teas]

Some bands like to be loud, part of their 'thing'. Their fans likewise are fans of their 'thing' ... in the old days they might play close up in a dingy room, the not-yet-deaf fans half crying in pain with their fingers stuck in their ears. The already deaf fans in the front, grinning inanely, hands in pockets or one fist punching the heavens. Nowadays they play fields, the fans half way back, their ears protected and insured. They stick their fingers in their protected ears as a kind of homage to the old timers, memories of the good old days.

 

Or I could be wrong, they might just be ordinary popsters who neglected to hire a proper engineer.

 

OT or OTT?

 

Oh, the memories of those loud gigs before I chose my path in life ...

 

J

[Mungo]

There are regulations. I looked them up and was surprised that it's still DIN (Deutsche IndustrieNorm) and not EU regulated:

DIN 15905-5 says: Not more than 99 db(A) over half an hour (average) and not more than 135 dB(A) for short moments  135dB(C) short term next to speaker. For outside events additional regulations (time) to protect people living nearby.

 

During big show FOH staff supervises the levels all the time (like they do supervise the wireless spectrum, to relate to this forum), but maybe some don't at smaller events. Those will be fined if they get caught.

Edited August 9 by Mungo
wrong facts, new in green

[Bouke]

4 hours ago, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

Or I could be wrong, they might just be ordinary popsters who neglected to hire a proper engineer.

I think this, she know the music, and that normally has some nice details that totally got lost now.
(She's 62, and has a loooong history of seeing live music, so yes, she knows about the old days, I do too :-)

Btw, it's Haldern pop, for those interested. https://haldernpop.com/

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

Wow, I'm surprised by those numbers.  Nowhere near low enough to prevent hearing damage ... 135dB(A) peaks at any time is nuts.  With Germany's reputation for loving regulation, I'm surprised they aren't lower.  I generally expect something like 92dB(A) average & momentary peaks around 110dB(A) to be 'safe' levels, and even those aren't great for long-term exposure (festival-length timeframes).  Not that I consistently see those levels, but that is what I expect safe to look like.

[Mungo]

Well, you know Rammstein and The Scorpions 😄

 

I neither couldn't believe it, so I'm sorry, I have to correct myself: The 135dB is C-weighted, not A. And it's in closest position to the sound source. Respectively this is mostly the bass. I edited the post above.

 

@Bouke: Haldern Pop is not one of the huge festivals like Hurricane, Wacken, Rock am Ring, but it's well known among music enthusiasts in Germany.

 

Btw I experience that most international artists bring their own sound pressure level to Germany when performing there. Often their concerts are a little quieter and so better to enjoy and healthier.

[Bouke]

She's seen quite a few performances, with huge differences in sound quality.
We blame it on Covid. Seems that lots of the experienced (tech) people left the bizz then and have not returned, being replaced with lesser gods. 
We go to Oerol (Dutch festival, music as well as theatre) each year, same issue. (With quality, not levels though.)

 

One performance was really mind boggling.  Just small street performance, one of the wireless mics crapped out.  The audio guy was not behind his stuff,  took him 2 minutes to slowly walk back.
Then it happened again, he was off again, this time unfixable, and it was one of the performers who had to suggest to get an XLR and use a (prop) SM 58 straight into one of the powered speakers...

(I donated 50 euros, performance was great. Girl told me she was going to use it on a new transmitter, I told her to get a new tech instead...)