Arri 35 Playback audio

[backfocus]

I mostly work out of a bag on medium size commercial shoots and some Tv and Docs.  I have one client that shoots a lot on Arri and now has the Arri 35.  With past Arri's such as the mini and LF, we did not have issues with audio when they wanted to playback a clip from camera.  This company does not use VTR, it is typically Teradek to the monitor or SDI.  With the 35 the playback audio is lower at the camera, with the headphone volume turned all the way up.  Levels look good and it does sound good.  When you go through SDI or Teradek, the audio at monitors are so low you can barely hear it with headphones plugged directly into the monitor.  They use SmallHD monitors' and have a 24" and 13" models.  I know the speakers on those are so small, but I am surprised the headphone volume is so low.  I have tried using a speaker from the headphone out, but the level is too low.  

Typically I just run timecode and a scratch track to the camera via a hop.  As stated before the levels look good.  Yesterday, on a shoot the clients wanted to hear the playback on a few shots and I had to add another transmitter from the camera and a receiver to a powered speaker for the clients.  However, camera department gave me gruff about it.

So what is everyone using for client playback from camera, or is there something up with the camera audio output?  My system is a SoundDevices 688 and Shure ADX wireless.  Comteks for client during recording and a camera hop to the cameras.

Looking for advise, besides that fact they really need to have a VTR person. 

[Olle Sjostrom]

Hm. In my day, I stopped working on set 10 years ago, but back then the SDI or whatever video signal would also carry the audio. So I’d imagine the audio takes the same path as the video… but I could be wrong of course. My setup was receiver on camera - carries through to video village. Sometimes I’d put the receiver in video village into their vtr. That of course depends on where they want to playback from. IE: sounds like you’re doing it right but there’s something fishy with either the output levels on camera or I out levels on the vtr.

if the teradek doesn’t carry the audio, there could be some menu diving to be done there as well. the VTR person should be able to help you troubleshoot, if they are somewhat experienced.

[edward chick]

If memory serves me there is an headphone output volume in the Arri 35 menu. You can go online and check the operators manual .

 

I work on a lot of jobs with the Arri 35 where Teradek  or equivalent is used and have not had any issues on playback. Maybe patch in a small speaker on the monitor audio output? Camera Dept. Needs to drop the attitude, if Producer/Director wants to hear playback, there should be no debate. It’s not a major undertaking to go into playback mode. 

 

[backfocus]

1 hour ago, edward chick said:

If memory serves me there is an headphone output volume in the Arri 35 menu. You can go online and check the operators manual .

 

I work on a lot of jobs with the Arri 35 where Teradek  or equivalent is used and have not had any issues on playback. Maybe patch in a small speaker on the monitor audio output? Camera Dept. Needs to drop the attitude, if Producer/Director wants to hear playback, there should be no debate. It’s not a major undertaking to go into playback mode. 

 

Yes, you can adjust to headphone output and what channel you are listening to.  It does not effect the SDI out, which it should not.  I have not found anything to allow gain output.  Turning headphone volume all the way up, does not change the headphone volume that much, in my opinion, either.   

I did patch in a small speaker on the monitor, but the only output on the SmallHD is the Headphone output and with the volume turned all the way up in the menu on the monitor and the speaker, you can barely hear it.  The camera department was more grumpy about adding another pack on the camera. 

[LDstudios]

I've done 6 dramas this year with the same 35 and haven't had any issues with playback either. Buggy SDI cables blitzing the RX200 receiver with RF on the other hand? It was practically an issue on the first build of every shoot! 

On a random side rant, it is annoying that Arri have moved away from standardised audio I/O. I've done a lot of work with Amira's and the original LFs in the past, and the 3/5-pin XLRs and AES support as standard were terrific. The newer stuff is starting to really feel like the hodgepodge of renegade bespoke make-this-shit-up-as-we-go-along engineering I would associate with Red! 

Short of sticking a QRX253 on the camera or running a breakout cable for camera audio I/O, the next best thing I have found for confidence monitoring from camera is an iPad and a wifi feed from whatever wireless system camera department is using. Perfect solution? No, but it plays back the sound from camera and provides both realtime and playback camera audio meters. Not all audio meters will have the same ballistics, but generally televisions & broadcast monitors are designed for something around -24LUFS, with portable devices like laptops and iPads closer to -16LUFS. 

If people are complaining about not hearing it, it is usually because the level is too low. That is my experience both in production and post production. Editorial can be a great resource in these situations - ask the if they are also needing to turn everything up during the edit. If the audio to camera is just scratch, ensure it is hitting the output limiters in the recorder for the spitty, sharp transient loud parts. We ran the line-level + limiter mode on the 35, and everything came through beautifully clean on playback across a whole variety of devices.