hipnotik Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi Folks, Total nOOb here. I am a Pro Tools guy (been doing post work for more than a decade) with increasing interest in production sound (please no hate mail for stepping out of the closet). I have the opportunity to go out on a shoot with a camera guy friend. Pretty simple set up: Two G3 wireless and a boom (MKH 416T or ME66) going to a SD 302 and straight to camera. Rumors has it that the 302 won't power the mics very well. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi, the 302 will happily power mics at 12 or 48 phantom or 12 volt T-power. Not sure what rumor you heard, maybe out was in reference to the 302's lesser amount of gain compared to its big brothers. Still, it shouldn't be a problem. I'd reach for the 416T before the me66 as it's a much higher quality mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 For anyone not familiar with T-power microphones, it's useful to point out that correct polarity is important. And, there's no universal standard of polarity or, more accurately, the accepted standard became confused when Stephan Kudelski of Nagra decided to go his own way. So, any given microphone might be wired this way or that. Plugging in a mike wired at reverse polarity to the supply from the mixer doesn't cause any harm but it doesn't cause any sound either. If all you hear is hiss or hash, your mike probably needs to have its polarity reversed. Just connect a polarity switching cable or a polarity reversing barrel somewhere in the cable and all will be well. Polarity reversing cables and barrels are available from the usual sources. Here's a link to an offering from PSC: http://www.professionalsound.com/specs/barrels.htm David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Sound Devices arguably make the best portable mixers and pre-amps available today, perhaps ever. If there is any "issue" with making a particular setup work, it's unlikely the SD unit will be the root of the problem. As always, excellent advice has been offered here by David regarding polarity. And Derek wisely advises using the 416. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipnotik Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 maybe out was in reference to the 302's lesser amount of gain compared to its big brothers. Still, it shouldn't be a problem Hi Derek. Thanks for reaching out. Have you ever been in a situation where this lesser amount of gain became an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipnotik Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 For anyone not familiar with T-power microphones, it's useful to point out that correct polarity is important. And, there's no universal standard of polarity or, more accurately, the accepted standard became confused when Stephan Kudelski of Nagra decided to go his own way. So, any given microphone might be wired this way or that. Plugging in a mike wired at reverse polarity to the supply from the mixer doesn't cause any harm but it doesn't cause any sound either. If all you hear is hiss or hash, your mike probably needs to have its polarity reversed. Just connect a polarity switching cable or a polarity reversing barrel somewhere in the cable and all will be well. Polarity reversing cables and barrels are available from the usual sources. Here's a link to an offering from PSC: http://www.professionalsound.com/specs/barrels.htm David Good point David. Well taken and thank you for taking the time to go over the important subject of polarity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 And don't forget to check and be sure there's no phantom power accidently applied on your G3s inputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Not to answer for Derek, but NEVER! I also feel the 302 is better sounding than the 442. With the 442, I always seemed to be pushing the trim pots up and up as the day went on. Hi Derek. Thanks for reaching out. Have you ever been in a situation where this lesser amount of gain became an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Hurley Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi, Be sure to turn off the camera phantom power supply! Good Luck,Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Not to answer for Derek, but NEVER! I also feel the 302 is better sounding than the 442. With the 442, I always seemed to be pushing the trim pots up and up as the day went on. That sounds like ear fatigue where you keep turning up the HP level. Were you turning up the trims because the meters showed the level dropping? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Yes, the levels appeared to be dropping. It could have been the actors performance or a faulty mixer (it was a rental) but, I had spoken with a few other people at the time and they all experienced a similar thing with the 442. I was also running off internal batteries which was thought to have been a possible cause (dropping voltage) I have used other 442's since and did not have the same experience (although I still think the 302 sounds smoother) -Jason That sounds like ear fatigue where you keep turning up the HP level. Were you turning up the trims because the meters showed the level dropping? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 " That sounds like ear fatigue " maybe it was 'mixer fatigue' ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_tatooles Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 An SD mixer or recorder, like almost all modern portable mixers and recorders, use switching power supplies. There is no change in operation or specification with different input voltages. Until your 4 penlight cells give up the ghost in a 442, the supply is generating 48 V phantom, +/-15 V for the preamp rails, and a few other voltages for things like its meters, microcontroller, spring reverb, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 An SD mixer or recorder, like almost all modern portable mixers and recorders, use switching power supplies. There is no change in operation or specification with different input voltages. Until your 4 penlight cells give up the ghost in a 442, the supply is generating 48 V phantom, +/-15 V for the preamp rails, and a few other voltages for things like its meters, microcontroller, spring reverb, etc. Spring reverb? That's so cool. Where in the menu is that app, under the Fisher space expander heading? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeheel Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 SD Spring Reverb? Dang hidden features... At least now I can take the external spring tank out of my bag and get back that channel I was using as a return. Brent C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Steigerwald Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Silky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Spring reverb? That's so cool. Where in the menu is that app, under the Fisher space expander heading? Eric Eric, just bang on your mixer...you know, like we all used to do with our Fender Twin Reverb amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Eric, just bang on your mixer...you know, like we all used to do with our Fender Twin Reverb amps. yeah, you know, like the end of the guitar solo in LOVE's "7 and 7 is..." (1967) phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 The 302 and also the MixPre do have limitations in their power supplies due, in part, to size and space limitations. However, in your circumstances, there shouldn't be any issue. One way the limitation manifests itself is, for instance, with a Sanken CS-1, you can get a motorboating feedback symptom. The solution for this is to engage the high-pass filter. There are one or two other mics that have limitations. I know there used to be applicable information in the SD tech notes. You many want to check there. Although, I haven't used a T-Power 416 with either the MixPre or 302, I know that both mixers have an ongoing positive relationship with that mic. Overall, these are excellent mixers, performing admirably on a daily basis for massive numbers of pros, so rest assured, you're okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suresh Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 The only thing is, my T powered 416 takes a little time to come on, with both, my 302 and my 442. But once its on, it is just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_tatooles Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 There are fairly sizable caps for the T-power supplies in 302 and 442 mixers. They can take up to 8 second from power on to fully charge and stabilize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Jones Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I use my 302 with nothing but T-power mics. Just plan on that 8 second capacitor charging so you don't get caught off guard! BTW, the Arthur Lee reference made my day! If SD can only work out a large plate reverb for the 788.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Like others here, I sometimes use a 416T with my 302. Works fine. Hipnotik, not sure how familiar you are with the 302. Check out SD's helpful tech notes for that mixer: http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/category/mixers/302/ And if you don't have it, download the user manual: http://www.sounddevices.com/products/302master.htm Lots of cool features in the 302, not all self evident. As we've discussed here, the spring reverb is especially hard to find. Jon, you crack me up. -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_tatooles Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 WAY OT... I'm working up my next tech note to add non-linear (real) reverb to our mixers. Here is the start... pan dry inputs left, send left output to loudspeaker in "cool" sounding room, put cool sounding mic in cool sounding room and pan right, use right output as wet signal use another mixer to blend-to-taste the the mult'd left output signal and wet right output signal. *You could do this with a 788T without an additional mixer... This is exactly how I added reverb in my mixes in 1983 before I bought my Alesis MicroVerb... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriskellett Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I am not sure that I have had the need for this in the past 20 years but I might not be aware of the size of the market outside the film sound market for your company. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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