Ontariosound Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 I think that proper mic placement, be it boom or lav, and proper gain staging is far more noticeable than the brand of transformer. Assuming that quality gear is being used. I own the 788, 552, 302, MM1 and MixPre and am very happy with the lack of noise and clarity. "Warmth" can be added in post in a multitude of ways. Cooper does (did) sound very nice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 I am sure I have but I bet you can not hear a difference when you listen to a movie sound. Also I am NOT getting involved with a company that does not exist anymore!! You have heard Cooper... from indiana jones to many many major productions over the years... If you have the chance try them... to see, hear and feel the difference your self. //Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al mcguire Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 re: mic pre transformers I like them with the human voice and hammond b-3 speakers for anything else, especially percussive stuff , drums, pianos, marimba's, violins, space shuttle launches I feel transformerless mics pres have far more clarity and resolution imho yada yada yada your mileage may vary ps: andy cooper is an interesting man who made a very good product fact - wasn't andy the LA nagra tech before he was cooper sound ? al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Holm Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Rado.. You make assumptions... Best is to be careful in stating what can be heard or not when you don't have 1st hand experience. I'm not trying to make you buy a Cooper... Just fantasizing on SD having really good preamps Ontariosound I agree... But still all the SD products is really good I also own 2x788, 3x744t, 302... except for me the preamps is the weak point so there will be a Cooper or AD mixer in front The transformer helps us in many ways especially in the field.. Warmth is not what I am looking for in the design of preamps more the effective dialogue with harmonic distortion character in the mid freq... Clarity and high detail is the goal for me //Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 I can bet ALL MY GEAR that in the finished movie you can only guess what gear was used. Not hear. Maybe you are a wonder boy but I can only hear sometimes when ADR lav or boom was used. Brand or the kind of gear used is impossible "in my opinion" to be heard after post. Rado.. You make assumptions... Best is to be careful in stating what can be heard or not when you don't have 1st hand experience. I'm not trying to make you buy a Cooper... Just fantasizing on SD having really good preamps Ontariosound I agree... But still all the SD products is really good I also own 2x788, 3x744t, 302... except for me the preamps is the weak point so there will be a Cooper or AD mixer in front The transformer helps us in many ways especially in the field.. Warmth is not what I am looking for in the design of preamps more the effective dialogue with harmonic distortion character in the mid freq... Clarity and high detail is the goal for me //Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Holm Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 You live in Vegas? gambling is hazardous... What you are saying is that you are happy with how SD sounds... And that's fine with me.. I respect your view on that... And yes I am "wonder boy" (just turned 40 but..) will have the t-shirt ready in no time! //Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 I do not gamble. This have nothing to do with Sound devices gear. Just with my preference in transparent sound. It is just me. You live in Vegas? gambling is hazardous... What you are saying is that you are happy with how SD sounds... And that's fine with me.. I respect your view on that... And yes I am "wonder boy" (just turned 40 but..) will have the t-shirt ready in no time! //Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 I do not gamble. This have nothing to do with Sound devices gear. Just with my preference in transparent sound. It is just me. If I'm following this thread correctly, you've just said your preference is the Sound Devices preamp over a Cooper preamp, which you previously argued that you've never compared. An old adage comes to mind: "Better to keep one's mouth shut and be suspected the fool than to open it and remove all doubt." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 If I'm following this thread correctly, you've just said your preference is the Sound Devices preamp over a Cooper preamp, which you previously argued that you've never compared. An old adage comes to mind: "Better to keep one's mouth shut and be suspected the fool than to open it and remove all doubt." I think that Rado is just stating his preference for transparent gear, no harm in that. I think that the term "transparency" as it means "accurate" is a lofty goal. In reality, even our best efforts in sound capture are not really "accurate" if it means that what we record sounds like something that one wouldn't be able to differentiate from what our ears hear, which is where post decisions and methods come into play. Microphones just don't behave like our ears (and the cognitive DSP that occurs). There are a lot of reasons that electronics might use transformers, and it is not always to "color" the sound or mean that the sound will be colored. There are so many different implementations of transformers - whether it is the coils themselves, or the circuit that they reside in - the same with monolithic and discrete electronics design, that I don't think you can unilaterally characterize any piece of gear strictly on whether or not it has a transformer in it. If I were designing something for my own use, it would likely be a transformerless design with electronically balanced inputs and outputs. If I were designing something for mass market consumption, having a transformer on the input would naturally also provide a great means of protecting my circuit from nasty unknown quantities upstream from a signal that the end user may not always have 100% control over. Would probably bolt a tranny on the output too, for many of the same reasons. Most equipment, even the ones that are known to have a lot of "color" in the music production world are really mostly effected at the extremes of their operation. The way that they overdrive and approach their circuit's performance envelope, differentiates them from other circuits and makes them highly coveted. I often use a Neve BCM loaded with 1073's for music production work, when "money channels" are warranted, otherwise will just use the console's strips, SSL 4000E/G strips. E are more colored, but not as much as the 1073s and the G's are cleaner still, but when not running too hot - I can't really distinguish between them in live monitoring conditions, don't really care to think of it too much, and just use the tools to get the job done. The inaccuracies from environmental variables will have such a greater effect on the recorded sound, and the operator's abilities to recognize each environmental challenge correctly and selecting methods to apply to overcome the situation at hand. When recording classical, I would probably select my Millennia or Nagra preamps, but would have absolutely no problem driving them through 1073s... even though they are not known to be "transparent". They sound good and if I don't drive them too hard, will stay out of the way well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Never said that. This is what I said: "Pacifica Api and quad eight are different beasts and while they might be good for music by introducing color to the sound for video and film transparent sound is a lot more desirable at least by me." ALso "what is wrong with the transformers sd uses? Nothing." Never compared to cooper. If I'm following this thread correctly, you've just said your preference is the Sound Devices preamp over a Cooper preamp, which you previously argued that you've never compared. An old adage comes to mind: "Better to keep one's mouth shut and be suspected the fool than to open it and remove all doubt." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 I see the argument that no one can tell what brand of mixer was used when they experience the finished film as a smoke screen intended to obfuscate the real point of the discussion. Most would likewise be hard put to tell what camera was used to create any video project, especially a web video, but the fact remains that the better the quality maintained throughout the production chain, the better the end result. Experience tells us the same is true of audio. And THAT's the point -- not whether one can identify the elements that went into the end result. The acoustics of the space where a recording occurs and microphone positioning have a great deal more affect on the final sound than does the difference between good preamps, however, those at the top of their game strive for the best quality of every element that goes into the job, including preamp and mixer differences. Which, as the point was made earlier, is a large reason why so many major films have been mixed on Coopers and Sonosaxs over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Back at SD new product speculation...I hope they do NOT port Mr. Sven to anything else. I find that kind of menu control very counter-intuitive... phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Is this the Rumor? NAB 2011 Stop by the Sound Devices exhibit at #C2946 and see the new PIX video recorders and MixPre-D. Click on the NAB graphic above to register for a free exhibits-only pass. PIX 220 and PIX 240 Recorders Introduced at NAB 2011 PIX 240 Video Recorder Simplifying Production Sound Devices PIX 220 and PIX 240 video recorders add Quicktime recording using Apple ProRes or Avid DNxHD* to any HDMI-or HD-SDI equipped high-definition video camera. The portable PIX 220 (HDMI-only) and its sibling the PIX 240 (HDMI and HD-SDI) record Quicktime files to CompactFlash cards or removable 2.5-inch solid-state hard drives. * Avid DNxHD codec is available as an optional accessory Key Features * Apple ProRes or Avid DNxHD* codec at multiple data rates * Quicktime file type 10-bit input video resolution * Ultra low-noise (-128 dBu) mic preamps with phantom, limiters, line input (based on 7-Series recorders) * CompactFlash or removable 2.5-inch solid-state hard drives file storage with media spanning, UDF format for Mac OS and Windows compatibility * High-accuracy built-in time code generator, with genlock / word clock output (PIX 240 only) The PIX 220 and PIX 240 are on display at the Sound Devices NAB exhibit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LeBlanc Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Rumor confirmed.. http://sounddevices.com/products/pix.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 I do not get it. It should have been 4 channel mixpre with 2 AES 4 channel output. Worth looking at Lectro D4. I see this recorder as another reason for producers not to hire sound mixers. Also this recorder can not compete with other recorders price wise. Ninja is $999 http://www.atomos.com/ I really wanted a 4 channel 744t with 4 pres and mixer features. Well lets see how much the Nomad will be. now i can get why you got mix pre D :-) smart company, which got the right conclusion ,from sound hard to make living Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 "I see this recorder as another reason for producers not to hire sound mixers." ...or to lower our equipement rates again, while raising dop's ones (you know, these guys who buy Diva lights and rent'em the same price we TRY to get paid for additional wireless mics when needed, only to leave them in the truck in the end ? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 " fact - wasn't andy the LA nagra tech before he was cooper sound ? " Fact ?? or Question ?? Andy Cooper was the Nagra USA technician, in LA for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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