How important is it to have been a boom op before becomming a sound mixer?

[Noah Timan]

My feelings are that for some it doesn't matter at all, and others would of been much better had they come up through the ranks. Naming names, some of the best like Jeff Wexler, Jim Webb, Keith Wester, Rich Van Dyke, Art Rochester, Roger Daniell, all of whom I had the good luck to work with and learn from, never swung a pole for a pay check, and their resumes speak for themselves. Not naming names, many of the others I worked with never got the big picture of things, or the art of working well with other departments, or the true value of our job.

Well said.

[bperlman]

Like many other mixers I was never a boomer, although I did years of documentaries at a time when radio mics were rarely used.  That experience taught me a lot about where to put microphones and helped me develop an ear for what works and what doesn't.  I do, however, think that my learning experience was somewhat more difficult having not worked with other mixers.  One important trick I did learn when I moved to Los Angeles and began mixing movies, televsion and commercials was to hire the most experienced boompeople I could find.  With out a doubt they allowed me to pretend like I knew what I was doing  and saved my novice ass more times than I'd like to admit.

Bruce

[studiomprd]

what Bruce just said!!

[Mick]

During the 90's I did six seasons on "Unsolved Mysteries" where, like many guys here, I was a one man sound crew. I made a custom rig so that a time code Nagra would sit between my hips supported by a hip and shoulder strap combination thingy, and I would swing a pole over my left shoulder supported by my right hand while adjusting the gain with my left. You had to be there. It was not booming in the traditional sense but it enhanced my appreciation for that particular skill. The muscles of my left shoulder are far more developed than my right, and my back has a strange "S" curve somewhere about the seventh vertibrae, but it was all for the art.

I never missed not being a professional boom operator but many shows like UM and other one man band gigs gave me enough chops to run a sound crew and know when to leave the booming to the boom guy and have enough reading material and crosswords for the day.

Regards

MIck

[old school]

I am a big fan of Bruces, sorry to say I never worked with him, but he has a great rep within the biz.

I always thought I would be a life long boom op cause I loved it so much, but now I feel that mixing what with the chair and reading and internet is more my style. Kind of like Mick.

CrewC

[FSBELLA]

Old School- you started another great thread. 1st employed in production for 10 years and now currently working in the rental world for the past 10, and coming across or dealing and talking, mostly asking questions about placement for particular shots, and what microphones you choose to use for that set up. I have gathered that, the boom op ("swinging the pole") is the most important position for the sound team. every mixer wants to surround themselves with the best boom op. and make them part of there crew for as long as they can. side note- when I talk to  mixers, they usually say. " I am working with so and so on our 20 or 30th film" or something to that effect.

also,

someone mentioned it here, the camera lenses. the good boom ops. don't need a monitor (it helps) but when they hear a lense request, they already know or anticipate there "angle of attack" or how close they can get to the frame line. lighting- ya most of the great ones can light a set for sure.

thanks,

Frank

The Audio Department

Burbank,CA.

[John Coffey]

Recording audio on set is a creative collaborative process. 

Like Crew, I cabled and boomed before becoming a mixer.  Then I gave up mixing for a living and now just cable a couple weeks a year to keep my IA union hours alive.  As a cable person, I now get to boom again too, as 2nd boom of course. 

I believe the heart of good sound comes from the original mic placement, both on set or on an actor. 

Jeff is the luckiest sound mixer because he happens to work with one of the best boom operators I've ever worked with in my life.  There were many other great boom operators like Tim Salmon, Beau Baker, and Randy Johnson who were superb too.  However, my experience as a boom operator was important for a journeyman sound mixer, like me, who often needed to hire different boom ops that I didn't know.  Any mixer who hasn't boomed a couple years is at a disadvantage then.  They don't know fully when the boom operator is doing a job that could be done better.  They think they do, but they can't know for sure like a former boom op would.  Also, often, when sound gets in a pickle, just having another point of view on booming the shot was enough to smooth things out. 

In these sorry days of huge radio micing on set, a boom operator who has good wiring skills is almost as important in balance as being able to swing a pole.  Any extra knowledge of that difficult craft is a definite plus.  The more you know, the more you know.

John Coffey

[Noah Timan]

In these sorry days of huge radio micing on set, a boom operator who has good wiring skills is almost as important in balance as being able to swing a pole.  Any extra knowledge of that difficult craft is a definite plus.  The more you know, the more you know.

While I certainly agree with that last statement, this brings up another (possibly) interesting tangent -- the L.A.-ism of having the boom op wire the actors.  Obviously it must work because it's been the standard way of doing things out there for so long, but I've never understood exactly how.  Most of the great boom ops I know rarely leave the set -- they claim their real estate and stay right there to keep alert as the shot changes and to put out any fires the evolving lighting setup or camera dept. might throw at them.  When actors need to be wired, often the sound department member wiring will have to go blocks away to camperland to do it there and then inevitably wait around for ages while hair and makeup finishes, all during which time the camera and electrics are busy adding things and tweaking.  The sound department is then given their moment, and no sooner does the wire go on than first team walks and rehearsal is up. 

Now the boom op theoretically would have been away from set this whole time and if the shot and lighting has changed for the worse, he's in a real pickle as there's now no time to work with the camera op and gaffer or grips to resolve problems.  That's why here in NYC the boom op seldom does the wiring (unless it's a quick on-set job).  The most ideal situation for us is for the utility person to do it, but if the utility's wiring chops aren't up to snuff, we mixers often do it ourselves.

[Mick]

I did my own wiring for years and ironically it was Tim Salmon, mentioned as one of the best in John Coffey's post, who talked me out of it when we worked together on a pilot years ago. I haven't wired anyone since. Good wiring skills are a prerequisite for anyone on my crew and I adhere to the real estate designation mentioned earlier. Further validation to all producers that a three man sound crew is not only desirable but essential to any worthwhile production, be it in features or TV

Regards

Mick

[John Coffey]

Noah's point is well taken and there is a big difference between wiring on set and back at base camp or even trailers outside a stage.  It's a juggle between how good your third person wires, how much the mixer wants to get involved in doing it, the clothing demands, personalities, etc.  Generally, most boom ops now juggle both according to this type of criteria for each situation. 

Take Tim Salmon again, he always would wire on set for me and not leave the set, but on a beach show we did, the wind and wardrobe (generally bikinis) elements made good wiring more important.  Then working the shot out on set suffered more because of it.  It's a frustrating and a no-win situation that bchanges constantly. 

On some shows, like Season 1 of HOUSE, all the actors were trained to report automatically to the sound cart, upon coming on set first, to be wired on spec.  Any sound crew there at the moment participated in the jolly exercise.  It was loads of fun for one and all.

[Jeff Wexler]

While I certainly agree with that last statement, this brings up another (possibly) interesting tangent -- the L.A.-ism of having the boom op wire the actors.  Obviously it must work because it's been the standard way of doing things out there for so long, but I've never understood exactly how.

This is an interesting conundrum you bring up and I am not quite sure what to say about it. I have almost never wired the actors (at least not on any dramatic production where I have a crew) and have always had the boom operator do it. I think the justification is the logical extension of the boom op being responsible for the placement of microphone (or microphones) so it makes sense at that level. Then, once they have been doing it for years, and the mixer's have not, it is self-perpetuating and moist, well maybe MOST, boom ops will be better at this than I would be. About not being on the set to stake out territory, understand the shot and the lighting, I suppose it could be said that if wireless is being used for shot isn't the "territory" for the boom op irrelevant and lighting changes will not matter. It is possible that the lighting scheme already dictated that booming the scene was not going to be possible. All of this, of course, does not take into account the current practices (particularly now that multitrack and multicamera is prevalent) of booming AND wiring the actors. There, Noah, I believe you really have a good point.

-  Jeff Wexler

[Philip Perkins]

One of the great luxuries of having a boom op for a soundie who often has to work alone is having them wire the talent while I keep an eye on the set--just my way of working I guess.  But when we have a lot of people to wire we both end up jumping in in order to keep things moving.  I agree that smart ADs train talent to report to the sound cart when coming out of wardrobe, but I often need my wardrobe homies to help or buy off on what I do so one of them has to come along too.  If we have a lot of folks we all try to muck in together to make everyone as happy as we can as fast as we can.  One thing that has happened a lot lately on "real people" spots/shoots is that production wants me to wire the next person up while we are rolling on the previous talent.

That gets a little hairy if the wardrobe is complex and I am actually having to mix anything, so sometimes I wave them off. 

Philip Perkins

[old school]

With a full 3 man crew, there is no reason the 3rd can't hold down the set if the boom has to wire 'Talent'. Great if the 3rd has the chops to do it and would be a asset for them to wire actors at times. But what I think happens most often on film sets is the boom op is the one who develops the relationship with the actors and they want that person to do it. Also I don't agree with Jeff about "moist" boom ops.... If that is the case than it might be better to send a dry sound crew member to do the job. In commercial-ville, my boom Marydixie always wires them. I will at times remove the units if needed or cable back the duplex in order to stay ahead of the race.

CrewC

[Noah Timan]

About not being on the set to stake out territory, understand the shot and the lighting, I suppose it could be said that if wireless is being used for shot isn't the "territory" for the boom op irrelevant and lighting changes will not matter.

I certainly see that point in terms of a situation where the wires are going to carry everything and the boom is just going to get the slate and maybe some air.  But there are other situations I can think of where the boom's going to carry everything in the shot except one line from each actor as they walk into the room, or up the stairs, or in front of the mirror, etc.  These are not a situation where one is simply double-covering everything since the tracks are available, and letting post sort it out later -- but combining boom(s) and wire(s) as different elements of one mono mix.  In this case I'd hate to lose the operator from set. 

[Noah Timan]

With a full 3 man crew, there is no reason the 3rd can't hold down the set if the boom has to wire 'Talent'.

It's funny, because I often find that it's far easier to convince an actor that it's OK for the third to wire that person than it is to convince a gaffer that what the third says on set about what must happen with flags and lights in order to accomodate the boom must be respected. 

In my experience, I often see that the boom op is the only one who can make certain things happen in that regard, because he/she is always the one on set and develops the good rapport with the lighting folks.  For the third to walk in and stand in for the boom while he's off at the campers wiring, and push for cutters and siders and toppers and such, or moving lights just so to be sound friendly -- well, I'm not sure a lot of thirds I work with know the lighting enough to be able to do that effectively, and I'm not sure they, as sudden on-set members, really carry the political heft to carry it off -- and even if it works, it's a lot for the boom op to catch up with when he arrives back on set and plunges straight into rehearsal.

[old school]

Like all of this, there are so many specific situations, but for me and the way I work, it becomes the boom op's call as to who does what. I ran it that way back when I was a boom man, cause thats how I learned it. What ever works is the right way.

CrewC

[Kevin Sorensen]

 " When actors need to be wired, often the sound department member wiring will have to go blocks away to camperland to do it there and then inevitably wait around for ages while hair and makeup finishes, all during which time the camera and electrics are busy adding things and tweaking. "

This is a serious waste of manpower in my experience. We have always insisted on wiring the actors at the sound or

utility sound cart. While watching the set there are windows of opportunity for both the boom op and the 3rd ( who

may be needed on 2nd boom for the scene anyway ) to wire people as they make it to the set . The boom op will tell

the 1st AD, that we need the actors a few minutes before they are called in for a for first team rehearsal and I will pitch in and help to expedite the wiring of talent if need be .

my 2 c

KKS.

                                             

[t.elder]

" When actors need to be wired, often the sound department member wiring will have to go blocks away to camperland to do it there and then inevitably wait around for ages while hair and makeup finishes, all during which time the camera and electrics are busy adding things and tweaking. "

This is a serious waste of manpower in my experience. We have always insisted on wiring the actors at the sound or

utility sound cart.

my 2 c

KKS.

I agree that it's never great to have to go to the star trailers to wire actors, and I never let production do it to us if it's avoidable, but there are times with women's wardrobe when it's not practical to wire them on set.  When that happens, I always have the first team PA work it out with me so we have enough time to get it done - the really cool first team PA's will stall their boss if necessary in order to give the boom operator enough time to make it back to set.

Tim

[Kevin Sorensen]

I don't know if its true, but I heard a rumor, that a sound mixer was actually seen bringing a waistband, transmitter

and lav to an actors dressing room, while the the two boom ops  were working out shadows & reflections on the set ?

Isn't it a known fact that mixers don't leave their lap-tops unless there's an earthquake or something ??.....

KKS

[Mick]

I just hired a new third guy through a posting on this forum. Obviously in the initial stages of getting to know how my boom op and I like to work I had to be on top of every stage of every aspect of the job, from the setup stage to the truck loading stage, until I was surethat he was capable and I could return to my laptop and crosswords. I haven't done any of this stuff for quite some time and I enjoyed renewing my aquaintance with every little detail that heretofore had been taken care of by my previous 3rd. It's good to keep in touch and raise the eyebrows of the camera crew who have rarely seen me standing up and enjoyed my disastrous attempts at loading the carts on the truck until Dennis my boom guy told me very politely to scram and leave it to him. Basically, all jesting aside, it's good to be familiar with every aspect of this continually evolving job if for no other reason than to be able to substitute for a missing menber who is unable to work for whatever reason.

Regards

MIck

[Kevin Sorensen]

Its a good insurance policy for all sound crew members to be familiar with all aspects of each persons dailly rutien

[Kevin Sorensen]

oops, hit the post button, instead of the spell check one. I just wanted to say "ditto" to Mick's post . Well put. Plus now everybody

gets to see what a groovy screen saver you have !

Best,

KKS

[Guest Ken Mantlo]

Well it did me a world of good. Boomed for 20 years before making the move. I use to hate it when the mixer would bitch but wouldn't have any idea on how to solve the problem either. Because of my booming, I can understand when there is a legitimate problem or lack of experience from a boom operator.

Unfortunately you can't marry a good operator (well, I guess in CA you can). Eventually you will split for one reason or another, so you had better have all the tricks up your own sleeve, particularly wiring.

My 2 cents worth.

[taylormadeaudio]

I don't know if its true, but I heard a rumor, that a sound mixer was actually seen bringing a waistband, transmitter

and lav to an actors dressing room, while the the two boom ops  were working out shadows & reflections on the set ?

Isn't it a known fact that mixers don't leave their lap-tops unless there's an earthquake or something ??.....

KKS

OUCH!  : ) too funny.  I started about 16 years ago in features as a Boom Op and have been mixing features now for about 6 of those (still pretty young to it all) but it took me a while to let go of that aspect of being a Boom Op and let my Boom Op(s) have complete control of wiring the actors -- I was so worried that it wouldn't get done correctly unless I did it -- I always wired talent -- but I finally figured it out -- I'm supposed to sit on my ass and get fat -- that's part of developing a team and (God willing) keeping one together -- as a Mixer, you don't have to worry about certain things... just who ate the last maple bar... no wait, that's Teamsters...  just kidding.  : )

--tt