Cable question

[Bob]

Sorry for the stupid question but I just got a last minute call for a job. They are shooting with red and a 5D at the same time. And they want both cameras to record a scratch track of a prerecorded music file (playing back from my laptop) essentially a music video.  What cables do I need to get into both of the cameras? Will the 5D be able to take in a line level signal (5D apparently running fairly old software). 

[ProSound]

RED is TA3 male input. Other option is to turn camera mic on 5D on and put a mic on RED and when you playback audio on set via speakers they will record it and they can pluralize it for sync.

[aristotle_kumpis]

I would run a wireless feed from the audio interface to the cameras. I recommend using some sort of padded cable for the Canon since it's mic input only. On the RED as Whitney mentioned, it uses a mini XLR input. Those cables are not cheap, but will do the job. Or you could place a shotgun mic on the RED instead of a wireless.

[John Blankenship]

As has been stated the 5D is mic level only. Its input is via a standard 3.5mm miniplug.  The Red can be either line or mic input as selected in the setup menus and has four 3-pin mini-XLRs (TA3F) for input (requires a TA3M plug for each input of the four channel audio).

Check with whoever is supplying the Red.  Often they will include mini-XLR to XLR adapter cables with the camera package. 

Sometimes, what you can add to the 5D will depend upon how much gack they've already loaded it up with.  A Sennheiser G2 or G3 is often a good choice for the 5D and would also work fine for a Red scratch track.

Keep your headroom requirements in check.  The last Red build that I worked with had 18dB of headroom according to the manual -- and I think that was a bit optimistic.

[chrisnewton]

Ditto to what John said. I use G2s for feeding these cameras. Works great. You can get the RED cable adaptors from Trew audio. I noticed that Blue Cow cables (had a recent thread about SR cable looms on this message board) makes a nifty locking 1/8 mini plug (G2 output) to mini XLR to feed the RED.

[Eric Toline]

Ditto to what John said. I use G2s for feeding these cameras. Works great. You can get the RED cable adaptors from Trew audio. I noticed that Blue Cow cables (had a recent thread about SR cable looms on this message board) makes a nifty locking 1/8 mini plug (G2 output) to mini XLR to feed the RED.

You mean cables like this that I make?

[john.e.perkin]

.....now that's just plain rude.

Now lets not argue about British/European Engineering & Politeness....

I've also got cables which allow the G2/G3's to carry timecode, Hirose/BDS to USB Cables as well as some rather skinny Hirose looms and and lots of other cable sets for mixers/recorders.

[chrisnewton]

that's a really robust TA-3 John. Who makes it?

Your cables look swell too Eric, do you sell them?

[ProSound]

Eric has made me many cables and they are all excellant and at great prices. I just got one of Johns USB charger cables and it is also very well built

[Marc Wielage]

I would run a wireless feed from the audio interface to the cameras. I recommend using some sort of padded cable for the Canon since it's mic input only.

I agree with that. Make sure they run the Canon 5D on manual gain, too.

BTW, a Red and a Canon 5D will not match in terms of video -- they have a radically-different look. (I assume they're aware of that.) Make sure they shoot a visual slate on both cameras, since the 5D has no timecode capability. Beware -- the Canon needs frequent CF card changes, at least in my experience, and they tend to overheat on long continuous shots.

--Marc W.

[Bob]

Make sure they shoot a visual slate on both cameras, since the 5D has no timecode capability.

Would you run TC into red as well as using a slate?

[ProSound]

Would you run TC into red as well as using a slate?

Yes I always do

[Eric Toline]

that's a really robust TA-3 John. Who makes it?

Your cables look swell too Eric, do you sell them?

Yes I do. Contact me at audioetc@bellsouth.net or 954-255-7628.

Eric

[johnpaul215]

I have not done a ton, but the 5D jobs I do never request scratch audio on camera... they use the on-board mic. I guess we never did a super wide shot where it wouldn't work. The owner/operator/editor? said they knew PluralEyes would sync it all and didn't even want to bother with a G2. It all seemed to work out.

As for the RED..... I *usually* use a G2 for a really solid scratch track, and often a Denecke sync box now that I own one. I have used my Zaxcom ENG hop to send a mono mix on CH1 and TC on CH2. I only did that for one film, but it worked out fine. No cross pollination of TC into the audio that I know of. I think they synced the audio really quickly (somebody was doing it on site), but still liked the audio on there for playback.

As stated above, *most* RED packages seem to come with the XLR-TA3 adapters.... just make sure in advance. It's always good to have at least one on hand. Those TA3 connectors are not the most robust things. I've had a few break on set. I'm going to guess most all REDs have the audio board upgrade now and don't require the padded cables, but it can't hurt to ask.

I always run a backup recording with the RED, even if it's a simple Zoom recorder.

[Marc Wielage]

Would you run TC into red as well as using a slate?

My opinion: yes, and I'd check the jam every so often, especially when they change CF cards or reboot, or when you get back from lunch. I'm told by editors who use PluralEyes that the system works better if they have a very clean audio feed going into the EOS-5D (or 7D); if they use a camera-mounted mike, the system may have to work "harder" to match the waveforms, especially if the camera is a long way from the actors.

I agree with John above to always run a sound backup on Red camera jobs.

--Marc W.