slemaker Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Hey everyone, I am looking for advice on Pro Tools. I need to be able to record on Pro Tools up to 8 tracks of audio, plus time code, in real time from my SD 788T SSD. The reason I need to do it is kind of a long story that has to do with character heavy metadata for every line of dialogue. It will make the work flow process for the animators, etc. easier... I do need an 8 channel interface as my 788 nor my Solice mixer will suffice. What I'm not sure about is the time code. How does one get time code into the Pro Tools session? Also do you know if I'll need to just upgrade my Pro Tools LE (my current version does not have T.C.) or will I need Pro Tools 9? Thanks, Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 " (my current version does not have T.C.) " " I do need an 8 channel interface " You have answered your own question(s). " heavy metadata for every line of dialogue " I predict "workflow testing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Be aware that Pro Tools 9 is only for Macs (if that's what you have) with the "Snow Leopard" OS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Your probably just better off upgrading to PT 9, but 8 LE is capable of reading MTC timecode with either the DV Toolkit, DV Toolkit 2, or the Complete Production Toolkit. The 788t outputs LTC timecode. This needs to be sent to a device that can convert LTC to MTC (MIDI) and then connected to ProTools MIDI, such as the HD Sync IO or Motu Timepiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemaker Posted May 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 I'm confused about how the T.C. gets into Pro Tools. Through the interface with midi? Or? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=midi+timepiece&_sacat=See-All-Categories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Even if the 788 were mountable as an external interface, you would absolutely need PT9. PTLE is only timecode capable with the addition of the DV toolkit add-on (which alone costs more than the PT9 upgrade) and only operates with digi hardware attached. Either way, without going full-blown HD, you're restricted to TC over MTC. You would need a converter like the MOTU midi timepiece (or with PT9, an interface with dedicated TC in). I don't foresee SD posting an update to allow the 788 to work as an ASIO interface any time soon, but I'd be happy to be wrong about that. Good luck -Wyatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Whoops! Tom, you beat me to the punch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Be aware that Pro Tools 9 is only for Macs (if that's what you have) with the "Snow Leopard" OS. I think you mean that ProTools 9 for the Mac runs only with the latest Mac OS Snow Leopard. ProTools 9 is available for Windows 7. (no comment as to why I would post something about Windows; surprises me as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Thanks Jeff, You have corrected my dyslexic comment correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Charlie, have you considered importing your 788 files into a Pro Tools session after you have recorded them instead of simultaneously? I'm not sure but I think the TC n user bits info would be embedded in your SD788 files and should travel w your bwav files into a PT session. Then they would need Tool Kit on the post side to read that metadata. Depending on your computer, it doesn't take that long to import BCWPoly files into Pro Tools. Just a thought. Either way testing will be beneficial as the Senator correctly points out. Good luck. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actualsizeaudio Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 You will need either Pro tools 9 or Pro Tools LE with DV toolkit. Any PT9 or Toolkit enabled Pro Tools system will see all .BWF metadata. Pro Tools does not work with Poly files, but instead converts them to mono files upon import. If you don't want to have 2 copies of the tracks then I would set the 788T to record mono .WAV files. The way I do it is I record Poly files in the field, and then let Pro tools make the mono files. I then have 2 copies of the files, and I never mind that. I've never had an issue with Pro tools seeing the TC, but remember, your timeline can only be 12 hours long in PT. So, if your first TC number is 12 past your session start and you go to "spot" any of your files to original source TC then they will read as "Original Time Stamp Out of Range'. This is not a reason for panic, just re-set your session start time to within an hour or so of your first TC number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actualsizeaudio Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 BTW, if you really can't just import your files, and you need to record them real time with TC, then I'd get a cheap MOTU digital timepiece on ebay, then any midi interface will get the MTC from the timepiece into PT. The nice thing about the Time piece is it has all types of WC outputs, including a spdif digital sugnal you can clock off of. I've used that for years with a digi002. http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=MOTU+digital+Timepiece&_sacat=0&_odkw=midi+timepiece&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 I still can't wrap my head around why one would need to do that. I'm curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 If you are working with 23.976 timecode, be aware that the MIDI specification does not support that format. Some SMPTE - MIDI converters may support 23.976 but there seems to be a lack of reliable information about the subject. I'm searching for a way to get 23.976 timecode from BWF files out of Pro Tools without having to acquire a full HD system. Solutions anyone? Thanks, David M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actualsizeaudio Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 I'd try the ambient ACC501 Master clock. I have one, and as soon as it gets back from rental I can try and send 23.976TC out from it. It acts as a MTC to LTC converter through a USB connection. Alternatively you can ask the ambient peeps if it will work at that frame rate, but I think it will. If you are working with 23.976 timecode, be aware that the MIDI specification does not support that format. Some SMPTE - MIDI converters may support 23.976 but there seems to be a lack of reliable information about the subject. I'm searching for a way to get 23.976 timecode from BWF files out of Pro Tools without having to acquire a full HD system. Solutions anyone? Thanks, David M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LeBlanc Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 try this http://nobusiness-soft.com/smptereader Use this SMPTE reader to program to read in the timecode directly from the 788 and use the IAC Driver to send it to Protools. I haven't tried this software and can't say if it supports 23.976, but worth a try.. Mark L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemaker Posted May 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Charlie, have you considered importing your 788 files into a Pro Tools session after you have recorded them instead of simultaneously? I'm not sure but I think the TC n user bits info would be embedded in your SD788 files and should travel w your bwav files into a PT session. Then they would need Tool Kit on the post side to read that metadata. Depending on your computer, it doesn't take that long to import BCWPoly files into Pro Tools. Just a thought. Either way testing will be beneficial as the Senator correctly points out. Good luck. CrewC Hey thanks for the reply, I have been importing after the fact. The client now wants the files in real time so that a data management type of person can drop in markers for every line of dialogue while rolling, then between takes cut each different line into a region and name it according to like 16 character titles they have in the scritps. That way they don't have to have someone do it after the fact for their work flow process... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemaker Posted May 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Thank you all for your input. The LTC to MTC conversion for work with Pro Tools 9 sounds like it has potential. Otherwise I understand that I would have to buy a Pro Tools HD Native system (can accept external LTC) and the rental would not be high enough to make this worthwhile... A couple answers: I am working with 29.97 The Pro Tools system must be recording my mix and iso's in real time with time code for my application I do not need the Pro Tools system to read my 788 metadata. I need the system so that extensive metadata can be used to make the client happy and fit into their work flow. A media manager sort of person will be dropping markers in the Pro Tools session on every line of dialogue during the takes, then later separating every line of dialogue into a region and labeling it with a long character heavy name(metadata) from the script... This is supposed to stream line the work flow so that no one in post has to import my files, listen and drop markers and cut into regions... This way it can be done on the day. It's for mo-cap and seems to be important to the client... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 ... Otherwise I understand that I would have to buy a Pro Tools HD Native system (can accept external LTC) and the rental would not be high enough to make this worthwhile... You don't have to go for HD, the plain Jane native version of PT9 will do timecode out of the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 I'd try the ambient ACC501 Master clock. I have one, and as soon as it gets back from rental I can try and send 23.976TC out from it. It acts as a MTC to LTC converter through a USB connection. Alternatively you can ask the ambient peeps if it will work at that frame rate, but I think it will. I'm highly interested in the results of your experiment. I would feel better about putting my money into a box that I can take out and use in the field too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemaker Posted May 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 You don't have to go for HD, the plain Jane native version of PT9 will do timecode out of the box. Tom, I'm being told by the Pro Tools sales person that isn't the case. I hope you're right because the HD NAtive is too pricey for what I'm doing... Here's quote from an email from a large shop that has been in L.A. forever... "1. Before HD Native came out it was only HD TDM that was able to input time code in real time from another source and prior to TDM it was the ProTools Mix systems.2. ProTools 9 just like the expanded versions of ProTools LE before it has a time code ruler which means you can work on a session that was already set up with time code but the only way to actually input time code in real time into ProTools is by using Avid's Sync HD which is available for ProTools HD (Native or TDM) only." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 http://akmedia.digidesign.com/support/docs/Whats_New_in_Pro_Tools_v90_69545.pdf page 53. Your rep is technically wrong on a couple of fronts it seems. Previously, as pointed out here, LE was capable of TC with one of the appropriate toolkits (DVTK, DVTK2, CPTK). Also the Digi Sync IO or HD was not the only game in town for LTC to MIDI conversion. Typical salesperson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemaker Posted May 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 http://akmedia.digidesign.com/support/docs/Whats_New_in_Pro_Tools_v90_69545.pdf page 53. Your rep is technically wrong on a couple of fronts it seems. Previously, as pointed out here, LE was capable of TC with one of the appropriate toolkits (DVTK, DVTK2, CPTK). Also the Digi Sync IO or HD was not the only game in town for LTC to MIDI conversion. Typical salesperson... I looked at the pages. Good information. I see it can work with time code, but don't see where it can be fed time code from an external source while rolling. I hope I'm not bothering you, but if you can please tell me how this works, what type of interface, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 I looked at the pages. Good information. I see it can work with time code, but don't see where it can be fed time code from an external source while rolling. I hope I'm not bothering you, but if you can please tell me how this works, what type of interface, etc... http://akmedia.digidesign.com/support/docs/Pro_Tools_Reference_Guide_v902_71009.pdf page 139 shows the peripheral setup pane, for adding MIDI and MTC sources. The cheapest method of translating the 788t LTC timecode to MTC is by sending the TC from the lemo into the line input of the Mac and using the smptereader software suggested by Mark. You would just need to construct or purchase a 5 pin Lemo to 3.5mm TRS cable. It should work well, but have no personal experience with it myself other than running it to see if it would lock onto LTC, which it seemed to do well. The cheapest hardware converter that I know of is the MOTU timepiece (couple of different versions, careful of vintages and capabilities), just search on eBay. In fact, all modern MOTU equipment is capable of reading TC on an audio channel and converting to MIDI, although I remember there being something about a "freewheel clock" which seems to indicate that the audio clock is not necessarily synched to the incoming TC reference, not unusual. That being said, if the 788t is the master TC clock, it also makes sense that it should also be the digital wordclock master, so make sure your audio interface is capable of locking synch to the 788t's BNC wordclock output or AES output for reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemaker Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Thanks for all the input everyone. I'll post my results once up and running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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