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Lectrosonics 411a


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Does anyone go FULL on the smart Noise reduction feature?

I can hear the difference, but have read it can cause some transparency for low-level room noise.

Any mixers have bad experiences with the FULL setting?

Thanks,

Justin

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Great, thanks for the input guys. I notice the hiss reduction when comparing normal and full, but if it was as simple as that, wouldn't everyone choose that option? What is the real trade off when going Full, instead of normal?

Richard: Why "never use full smtnr mode"?

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Hey Peter, I'm not aware of any hiss problem in the normal setting. Maybe my hearing is going south. Usually system noise is not much of a problem when I need to use Radio Mics.

CrewC

Agree with you here Crew... on a lav with that signal to noise, I am usually very happy in the NORMAL setting... I tried the Full NR setting and did not care for it... The overall sound was fuller and better with it in normal, it seemed compressed in Full NR to me... didn't sound as nice and wide open... I'll take a little background noise for a better overall quality of actual sound.Always ran in that mode...  the Normal..The geni, street noise, set banter and racket, crows, parrots (yes Parrots) and lawn mowers are more of a worry... Seldom am I for some reason in a place where things are that quiet unfortunately... It sucks, but that's the skinny...  When I say digging out a mix on another thread, I meant it...

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This thread got me thinking.

The system noise also depends on the TX gain setting. I mostly have the TX gain at 11 o'clock with cos11 black dot mics. This setting seems best for the reality work I do because it handles normal talking level and also shouting and screaming.

I guess that's why in normal NR it sounds hissy. Full sounds alot cleaner in regards to hiss/noise floor when the TX is set to 11 o'clock. When NR is off and TX is 11 o'clock, the hiss is pretty bad.

It's a trade off for me with all my reality work. I can't have tx gain too high for better signal to noise, so full NR it is!!

Never had any complaints.

Maybe I'll try normal for a while and see what happens.

Cheers.

Peter

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This thread got me thinking.

The system noise also depends on the TX gain setting. I mostly have the TX gain at 11 o'clock with cos11 black dot mics. This setting seems best for the reality work I do because it handles normal talking level and also shouting and screaming.

I guess that's why in normal NR it sounds hissy. Full sounds alot cleaner in regards to hiss/noise floor when the TX is set to 11 o'clock. When NR is off and TX is 11 o'clock, the hiss is pretty bad.

It's a trade off for me with all my reality work. I can't have tx gain too high for better signal to noise, so full NR it is!!

Never had any complaints.

Maybe I'll try normal for a while and see what happens.

Cheers.

Peter

Yes Peter, but what is your receiver set at... I normally run the NON SM or SMQ transmitters at Noon...  I understand your problem of unexpected loud situations... The limiter is pretty good on the Lectros though...It's the other part of the chain of input that might be the issue here...  I'm on Cos-11s as well... How much of your noise is from the headphone amp?.. I know you probably already took this into consideration, but just asking... May be the culprit as well...

  I don't think 11 or 12 on the TX setting would matter THAT much... not at least in terms of a Hiss being absent or not...

Is this on ONE unit, or all of your units by the way?

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I've noticed it really depends on the situation. On reality shows where it can get pretty loud outdoors, the normal setting is perfect and I don notice any hiss. The only time I engage the FULL setting is in sit-down interview situations where the speaker has a relatively quite voice. That is when I start to notice the 'hiss' of the system. I'm also using COS-11's.

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Yes Peter, but what is your receiver set at... I normally run the NON SM or SMQ transmitters at Noon...  I understand your problem of unexpected loud situations... The limiter is pretty good on the Lectros though...It's the other part of the chain of input that might be the issue here...  I'm on Cos-11s as well... How much of your noise is from the headphone amp?.. I know you probably already took this into consideration, but just asking... May be the culprit as well...

  I don't think 11 or 12 on the TX setting would matter THAT much... not at least in terms of a Hiss being absent or not...

Is this on ONE unit, or all of your units by the way?

I run my receivers at +4 line out.

I notice the difference in hiss without any change to the headphone volume, listening through either my 552 or 788.

Its the same on all 411a that I own and also others that I have used (friends, rentals etc)

The NORMAL setting definately sounds more "open" as you say but I'd rather the slightly "drier" sound of FULL than the hiss with NORMAL or OFF.

Just to be clear, this has nothing to do with the "servo only" and "non servo only" wiring in wrong transmitters. Thats a whole other story!!

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I run my receivers at +4 line out.

I notice the difference in hiss without any change to the headphone volume, listening through either my 552 or 788.

Its the same on all 411a that I own and also others that I have used (friends, rentals etc)

The NORMAL setting definately sounds more "open" as you say but I'd rather the slightly "drier" sound of FULL than the hiss with NORMAL or OFF.

Just to be clear, this has nothing to do with the "servo only" and "non servo only" wiring in wrong transmitters. Thats a whole other story!!

I think that's it,  Try them at -20  or even -30 in a bag rig....  I personally have never ran them at +4... But again, that's just me...  I normally have them at -20 on my cart, and -30 in a bag.... Treat them as a mic inputs... albeit a bit warm at -20...

  Just for fun, reset your rig starting with the -20 or -30 and see if that removes the system noise... You'll of course have to re  adjust everything, but I bet that works...

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I think that's it,  Try them at -20  or even -30 in a bag rig....  I personally have never ran them at +4... But again, that's just me...  I normally have them at -20 on my cart, and -30 in a bag....

Agreed. I have mine set at -22 in the bag.

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Good call.

I used to run my receivers at -25 with my SD442 because I could never get "enough" gain from them at +4 with the 442. When I bought the 552, I tried the rx's at +4 because the 552 has so much more overall gain.

I've been using my 552 and 788 for so long now, I can't even remember which smart noise setting I used with the 442 at mic level.

I'll go back to mic level and try your suggestion for a while and also try the "normal" setting in the rx.

Will see what happens!!

Cheers

Peter Mega

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Good call.

I used to run my receivers at -25 with my SD442 because I could never get "enough" gain from them at +4 with the 442. When I bought the 552, I tried the rx's at +4 because the 552 has so much more overall gain.

I've been using my 552 and 788 for so long now, I can't even remember which smart noise setting I used with the 442 at mic level.

I'll go back to mic level and try your suggestion for a while and also try the "normal" setting in the rx.

Will see what happens!!

Cheers

Peter Mega

Like Willie Wonka used to say "strike that, reverse it"  I think ;) 

    If I understand you correctly, which I may not...  As far as the receiver setting goes, +4 (line level) is a hotter "adjustment setting" than -25... It brings more gain into the mixer... That's  I believe where and why the noise floor was so high...  If the 552 had so much more gain, (hotter signal with the gains turned down, not up) you would of dialed the receiver down to -20 or -30 to put your gain in a more "comfortable position" not the other way around....

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Sorry, I should've made myself clearer. It's tricky getting thoughts across in writing!!

When I used -25 rx output with my 442, I set the 442 input to mic level in.

When using the rx at +4, I set the 552 input ( and 788) to line level in.

Just for kicks, can you try +4 from your rx and line into your mixer, then listen to smart noise in normal and full and tell what you hear please?

No rush, just next time you have a minute.

I'll report back too. ( off to sleep now, it's after midnight here in Sydney!!)

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Sorry, I should've made myself clearer. It's tricky getting thoughts across in writing!!

When I used -25 rx output with my 442, I set the 442 input to mic level in.

When using the rx at +4, I set the 552 input ( and 788) to line level in.

Just for kicks, can you try +4 from your rx and line into your mixer, then listen to smart noise in normal and full and tell what you hear please?

No rush, just next time you have a minute.

I'll report back too. ( off to sleep now, it's after midnight here in Sydney!!)

Ah ha.....  Makes sense.... No problem... I will check it out tomorrow on my job and report back to you.... Goodnight Peter....

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Really good stuff guys, this is what I Was hoping for...

Not to interrupt, because I really think you're both onto something great here, but Peter, you mention "servo and non servo only" being  another beast in itself. Are the new servo wirings not as great as they set out to be or is it quite the opposite?

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Really good stuff guys, this is what I Was hoping for...

Not to interrupt, because I really think you're both onto something great here, but Peter, you mention "servo and non servo only" being  another beast in itself. Are the new servo wirings not as great as they set out to be or is it quite the opposite?

I will try this again, botched my first response...ooops

  I think it's a reference to correct wiring of the SM series or LM series of transmitters, but who knows....Peters asleep...

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Howdee!!

Today I tried one of my 411a at -25 output level going into my 788 at mic level in.

Another 411a at +4 output level going into my 788 at line level in.

Both radio mics running side by side and I listened to both together (1 in each ear) and also 1 at a time.

To my ears, I could not hear any discernable difference when smart noise was in full, normal and off mode.

In other words, they both sounded exactly the same.....to me.

I dont think having the receiver at mic or line out makes any difference to what is heard with the various modes of the smart noise settings.

I'd like to hear what others think, can you hear a difference with smart noise when the receivers are at mic out and line out?

As far as my reference to the servo and non servo wiring....

I was trying to make it clear that I have the correctly wired mics in the appropriate transmitter.

As an example, a mic wired for the older non servo bias inputs like UM400 or UM200c, will have an unacceptable hiss (IMO) if used in a servo bias input transmitter like UM400a, SM or LMa.

The wiring that suits both non servo and servo makes a 3 wire mic like the COS11 into a 2 wire mic and flips the phase.

I personally dont like this wiring so I have mics wired for older non servo only and others for servo only.

See Lectro FAQ # 061 for more info on servo bias inputs

http://www.lectrosonics.com/component/option,com_fss/catid,-2/view,faq/

Cheers

Peter Mega

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