soundtrane Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Well, not quite ADR, but recording voices for an animation feature. I plan to record lines that take place outdoors in a "quiet place" - the desert outside Dubai city. I know i may face wind issues. Here is what I am intending on using: - an MKH50 in a BALL GAG and WINDJAMMER mounted on a boom pole and in fixed position (using the Ktek boom pole holder and a heavy flag stand) - a COS11 lav with appropriate wind protection (third party fluffs maybe) on a Lectro Tx/Rx - as a second choice (although I would rely upon my boom mic anytime) (although redundant info - i will be using my Cantar and some roll off on the inputs as i do usually. I may even choose to roll off at the mic as a basic norm in this case) Since it is summer (SUMMER!!) and 100 ++ during the day we will be able to record only around dawn and dusk. IF the winds are blowing hard, we may have to wait or abandon. I am assuming that my wind protection will be enough to handle the usage of the MKH50 outdoors at normal wind conditions. I would have like to use a boom op on this one, but it may not happen - hence the fixed boom and marks on the ground for the actors' position at the mic... I would certainly like to get any advice and/or suggestions from my diversely experienced friends out here. warm regards -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) "not quite ADR, but recording voices for an animation feature. " definitely not ADR, just wild line recording.... but, really, why ?? Certainly, go and record some great ambiance tracks outdoors, and mix it with the (clean, studio) dialog, but there are lots of real, practical reasons to be conventional, and only a couple "artistic" whims to justify what would clearly be a very difficult, costly, and potentially unsuccessful attempt for what?? "realism"?? in an animated movie??.... I know you love a challenge, and a chance to make interesting and useful contributions, but there would be lots of difficulties "out there", and also, keep in mind, that EXT ambiance will be needed on the M+E tracks for any additional languages the movie gets dubbed into. Sure, a recent US animated movie (Mr. Fox ?)made a big deal out of going out and recording its "location lines" in real "locations", on an isolated farm. Have you seen and heard it?? They had, and spent, a lot of $... was it worth it?? IMHO the only real benefit they gained was a couple write-ups in fan, and trade, publications. Edited June 29, 2011 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Senator, Just that i feel ADR is already a cold plastic process, which i am sure many will agree to. I did feel that recording outdoor lines outdoors will have something that a studio recording will need to be "made to sound like". I know the film you are referring to - Wes Anderson's animated feature which my good friend Noah Timan recorded. I surely hope to hear from him about this aspect as well on the group. One thing i know - recording a line outdoors when it is meant to be outdoors is far better than recording it in a studio and making it feel like it is outdoors. Isn't this one of the main stumbling blocks of ADR? Although I must mention that ADR is also about matching performances, and in most cases, it is more of this - than the technical issues to be faced with making an outdoor line sound like one. -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 " ADR is also about matching performances " and the R in ADR is for dialog Replacment! In this case you are making the original recordings for animation, quite different. As I noted, I really appreciate your "artistic" intentions to "do it better to make it better", but though you have started thinking about what microphone(s) you would use, also consider the tremendous planning and coordination required, especially noting limited recording session times, all of the technical and support equipment logistics (not just yours, but all the other "stuff"... will mobile homes and other RV's be needed?? craft services?? meals?? WC's ?? all the other creature comforts for the above the line folks?? What about consistency of the sound from session to session. If you plan to shoot near sunrise and sunset (winds will probably be, and sound different, how will you deal with set-ups and tear-downs in the dark; the breaks in between sessions, the scheduling and transportation issues?? The advantages of the conventional approach include efficiency, quality, comfort, convenience, and cost.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Senator, appreciate your inputs as usual... let me mention this at first... its a few actors and wont need RV/etc. Dubai to out of Dubai is less than an hour. In one hour of travel we can be FAR away from the city. maybe too far (but then, i will have to check it out in terms of far off noises traveling across the terrain to our recording spot). however i do understand the need for some convenience facilities... as of now, we have not earmarked a space where we can do these recordings - and therefore check on production requirements. i intend to do this soon as i get there, IF i stick to my idea of recording outdoors... as far as consistency from session to session goes - how do we do it when we are doing production sound? not much setup and tear down considering a couple of mic stands and my cantar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I don't know exactly how Vin intends to accomplish the recording but he has indicated that he will use his Cantar for that purpose. Consequently, he may really be doing ADR rather than merely an alternate of the original recordings. The Cantar has a feature they call "Blue Recording." This is implemented in the software for the exact purpose of making ADR in the field. In "Blue Recording" a selected track is played into a headset worn by the performer while a new recording is simultaneously made to a new track. The new recording has identical timecode to the original recording. I think it works by feeding the playback audio to the "Foldback" output, leaving the regular headphone output free to monitor the new recording. This is from memory of the Cantar manual so I may not have the details correct. Since the manual is originally written in Klingon, I'm not anxious to revisit it but I am confident of the capability. Vin, a report on how it all went would be welcome. David Sorry, I missed, at first, that this was for an animation feature so there would not be any original lines to replace. But, the "Blue Recording" is potentially such a cool feature that I'll let my post stand. This might also be a good place to plug the 695 Quarterly. We have an article by Lee Orloff in the latest issue about shooting and recording live action for the animated feature "Rango." Go to: http://695quarterly.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Vin, Your on the right track, all I would add is place your talent with their backs to the wind.... Place your boom in front of them, and mic from below to use their body as a block (if it's in fact windy).. And, use a LONG HAIRED windjammer..... As for your lav, if possible, place under an undershirt as well, right in that secret spot between the persons breast depression. Maybe with the furry wind ball as well... Remember, a lot of noise from wind is from the wind moving through ANYTHING around you. This can include, stands and boom poles as well, especially the pole... You sound like you have it handled.... Good luck, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Has this been posted already? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek9-UJidxVI Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) It appears they were recording Rango (audio) during performances of the lines, rather than in a booth in a sound recoding facility, and this seems like a way to get bigger and better performances more than a way to get "better audio" tracks. They also had the time and $ to fully exploit these ideas. Looking forward to hearing the outcome Edited June 30, 2011 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 You didn't like how it sounded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) If they recorded the RAGNO dialog during those performances, (were they MOCAP?? even if not, same thing) they were recording all the dialog on a sound stage, and not in the environment represented in the finished product, didn't they?? I'm sure that decision was taken by the director, and for performance considerations, not production sound considerations Vin is proposing to record the "EXT dialog" actually EXT, and for production sound ambiance considerations... Edited June 30, 2011 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Ah...I thought you were saying you didn't like how this was done since it wasn't in a vocal booth. I don't think they were motion captioning - if I remember correctly what was said in the clip. I thought this "Rango" style would be a nice way for Vin to do it if he could. Gets the realism of the performance and a controlled environment - but costs more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpsanos Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Thinking out loud. Recording your dialogue with only a shotgun and a lav kinda defeats the purpose of ambiance??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfisk Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Having been involved with lots of dialogue recording and editing for video games and animation, I have to say this is not a route I would go with. You can get the desired effect you want...and have a lot more control over your audio, if you record the dialogue in a good VO stage, and have a competent sound editorial staff cut your BG's, and all the other sound effects, and then have a competent re-recording mixer mix the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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