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To Hop or not


Zack

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I try to get $100 per day for my zaxcom system but often settle for $50.00.

Usually if they ask for a wireless link I can $100 per day for it. If I mention I own one and tell them how much better it is for camera I can usually get $50-75 per day for it. If not I usually give it away for free as I would rather sit down all day then be dragged around by some camera operator. I have owned my Zaxcom system for 5 years I have paid for it and I would rather work smarter then harder.

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I try to get $100 per day for my zaxcom system but often settle for $50.00.

Usually if they ask for a wireless link I can $100 per day for it. If I mention I own one and tell them how much better it is for camera I can usually get $50-75 per day for it. If not I usually give it away for free as I would rather sit down all day then be dragged around by some camera operator. I have owned my Zaxcom system for 5 years I have paid for it and I would rather work smarter then harder.

I agree I will get any where from $75-$100 / day. In addition since I have the Zaxcom QRX with IFB option, and if the client requested time coded transcription, I may bill $30-$50 for a "wireless tc feed". And like Whitney - though not often - I have given it away. I refuse to be dragged around.

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Nothing personal here but you guys that are saying you throw in the hop for free, are not doing the industry any favours.

The productions will soon expect it for free all the time and you will be standing back asking yourself "what just happened?"

Next thing you know, recorders, extra radio mics, IFB's etc etc will be expected to be for free too.

If they're not paying for the hop, cable up and just handle it for the day or find your reasoning and approach production for the hire fee.

Throwing in for free spells danger for all of us.

We need a return for our investment and to maintain, replace, upgrade our equipment.

If people think throwing in free gear will ensure another job with that client, its the wrong way of thinking.

I've said this before and I'll say it again now, they call YOU becuase they want YOU, not because you gave them a freebie.

If they want cheap, they will call the guys who do cheap rates and cheap work.

So, good luck and keep charging for what's meant to be charged for, no more no less.

Cheers

Peter Mega

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Nothing personal here but you guys that are saying you throw in the hop for free, are not doing the industry any favours.

The productions will soon expect it for free all the time and you will be standing back asking yourself "what just happened?"

Next thing you know, recorders, extra radio mics, IFB's etc etc will be expected to be for free too.

Peter

Not sure what are the expectations in your market but here in the states - NYC specifically - not all, but some clients expect two wireless in the basic kit. This includes the major networks who I do a fair amount of work for. So giving it away is usually calling the hop the two included wireless. Any other wires for talent is an additional charge. Other times I haven't billed for the hop my basic package price was high enough to cover it. And yes there have been a handful of times that neither one of these haven't been the case and I used my link for my own sanity and or safety. Those times I don't make a big deal that they are getting something for free - and quite honestly I don't even think they realize how the audio is getting to the camera. So they aren't going to expect anything in terms of hop or not. The only thing they are expecting is that the audio is recorded in the camera.

Jack

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While I hate giving away gear for free when it comes to my health and safety I will. If the hop allows me to sit-down all day and not wear a 25lb sound bag all day it's worth it. I prefer the motto " when camera runs sound walks" and the hop allows me to do this

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Go tethered at the beginning of the day. When the camera op gets fed up with it and the picture suffers because he isn't free to do his thing, an under the breath comment in earshot of the camera op that "I have a wireless hop but production probably won't pay for it" may do the trick.

Well, it did once.

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Jack and Whitney, at least you guys hate throwing stuff in for free which tells me you want to charge but sometimes cant. I just think we all need to keep a careful eye on this type of thing.

Jack, we also include the first 2 radio mics as standard kit. Our standard kit (in Australia) is mixer, boom/mic, 2 x radio mics, thats it. (associated bits and pieces of course, cables, headphones)

Anything else is extra. Link, recorder, IFB, extra radio mics etc etc.

If you're factoring in the link to your rates by increasing your normal rate, then you are charging for it and thats cool.

I've had the odd production try the old, "its all boom, so your 2 radio mics are the link" or on big reality shows "we're supplying the radio mics, so your 2 are the links" to which I reply that my Zaxcom digital stereo camera link is a special purpose, dedicated piece of equipment, its not 2 radio mics. Also, I'm expected to turn up to set with the included 2 radio mics and if I'm using them as links and suddenly need to use them as talent radio's, what then?

This always gets approval of the link hire.

We were made to cable up on a reality show in the contestants house at the start of this year actually (cost saving) and one morning in a tiny bedroom, the cam op tripped over my cable (he was trying to step over it while I wasn't watching!!) and smashed his matte box into to the top bunk bed (no major damage). Well that was it, from then on we were paid to use our link!! Had I simply used my link from the word go, just to make life easier, they would have got it for free and I (plus the other soundies) would've missed out on the link hire every day for the 6 month duration of the show.

Cheers

Peter Mega

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Hey Pete,

Hows things going? I'm almost finished this show(3.5 weeks to go and counting!) and should walk away with a new 788 and a few more toys!

But I want your opinion. When I was asked to do this show, which was an eleven week booking, 4 days before starting and after giving my rates 3 weeks prior, the Production Manager said they had a quote from a hire company saying they would hire the same gear I was supplying for a 3 day fortnight. This was for a 4 track recorder, stereo camera link, and an IFB. I said I couldn't compete with a 70% discount on the extra gear hire. I managed to talk them around into using and hiring my gear at the standard rate but only charging them for four days, for every week worked, but this caught me off guard. Has this happened to you? as I'm afraid that maybe this is something that could creep into our market place.

Cheers

Bronson

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Hey Pete,

Hows things going? I'm almost finished this show(3.5 weeks to go and counting!) and should walk away with a new 788 and a few more toys!

But I want your opinion. When I was asked to do this show, which was an eleven week booking, 4 days before starting and after giving my rates 3 weeks prior, the Production Manager said they had a quote from a hire company saying they would hire the same gear I was supplying for a 3 day fortnight. This was for a 4 track recorder, stereo camera link, and an IFB. I said I couldn't compete with a 70% discount on the extra gear hire. I managed to talk them around into using and hiring my gear at the standard rate but only charging them for four days, for every week worked, but this caught me off guard. Has this happened to you? as I'm afraid that maybe this is something that could creep into our market place.

Cheers

Bronson

I am absolutely shocked at the suggestion of a 3 day fortnight! Is it that the rental companies find us that have gear, a threat or are they just being spiteful! I urge ALL to fight this. It's so wrong!!

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" only charging them for four days, for every week worked, "

That is a good compromise...

it is a fact of life that we compete with larger "rental house" companies, who are in business solely to rent gear profitably. In the world out there, are production entities which own their own equipment because they believe that they can maximise their profits in that way -- say, that includes us as well as some of our clients!

There is currently another thread discussing what a fair rate to charge is, and the consensus is: it depends!. That goes for them as well as us...

Like all the businesses, including rental companies, we are under pressure to be competitive and to keep our investments paying off.

Someone elsewhere asked about a "group discount" on a peice of equipment about to be delivered... Well asking for "quantity discounts" in rental is also common, often the quantity being on days. Thus folks working on shows frequently get asked for a weekly rate, even as our "usual suspects" that we rent from offer us weekly rates, our clients ask for, expect, and deserve them, too.

There have been slow times when G+R companies trying to keep their equipment working would throw in the kitchen sink on a big package, and offer "one-day-weeks" on the whole shebang, trying to underbid competitors, and keep the customers loyal and the assets working.

One of the ongoing trends in recent times has been reality programs, the "real" ones, getting complete and consistent packages from single source, full service rental houses.

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My basic kit fee covers a 4 channel SD 442 mixer, 2 Zaxcom wireless talent mics, and boom. Beyond that I charge $150/day for my Zaxcom hop and $60-75/day per channel of additional wireless. IFB, second boom, and many other items are an additional charge.

I'm more flexible on pricing and what exactly is included if its a long term gig, but I still charge something for everything I use.

I have had quite a few production companies attempt to nickel and dime me on kit fees. When they say someone else will give them a two day week or they'll include the kitchen sink I tell them "that's wonderful, that sounds like the place you should get the gear if price is your only concern. But if you also care about the gear working properly and not slowing up your shoot then my gear is the best choice."

I have never once done a shoot where the rental companies gear all worked properly. There are ALWAYS issues. Bad cables, broken antennas, missing gear, etc.

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In addition to all of the above, I find it impossible to secure public liability insurance in Australia if I am using cables in a pubic place, so my argument to Production Companies if they don't want to use a hop is that my insurance will not cover anyone who trips over a cable connecting me to the camera.

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Another one I find nice, is the rental houses rent the camera package and throw the audio kit in for free. It is what you can negotiate that counts in the end.

David

Nashvegas

Yes have seen this too before they rent it to them for a 1 day week rental or even 1 day a month. The gear is usually crappy but all production sees is cost savings

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Hey Pete,

Hows things going? I'm almost finished this show(3.5 weeks to go and counting!) and should walk away with a new 788 and a few more toys!

But I want your opinion. When I was asked to do this show, which was an eleven week booking, 4 days before starting and after giving my rates 3 weeks prior, the Production Manager said they had a quote from a hire company saying they would hire the same gear I was supplying for a 3 day fortnight. This was for a 4 track recorder, stereo camera link, and an IFB. I said I couldn't compete with a 70% discount on the extra gear hire. I managed to talk them around into using and hiring my gear at the standard rate but only charging them for four days, for every week worked, but this caught me off guard. Has this happened to you? as I'm afraid that maybe this is something that could creep into our market place.

Cheers

Bronson

HI Bronson,

I'm really curious to know which rental house did this to you but I reckon I know already.

I'll call you for a chat.

That beer we keep talking about is gonna have to wait again because I'll be going away for about 2 months before you get back to Sydney which is kinda good since it'll be getting warmer then!!

Talk soon.

Cheers

Mega

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" my insurance will not cover anyone who trips over a cable connecting me to the camera. "

Personally, I'd question such an exclusion from any coverage. While it is wise to have your own insurance, including liability coverage, Liability coverage for a shoot should be provided by the production, and is included on the certificate of insurance that we get mainly for our gear.

" I'm really curious to know which rental house did this to you but I reckon I know already. "

Probably not one of our production sound specialist dealers...

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" my insurance will not cover anyone who trips over a cable connecting me to the camera. "

Personally, I'd question such an exclusion from any coverage. While it is wise to have your own insurance, including liability coverage, Liability coverage for a shoot should be provided by the production, and is included on the certificate of insurance that we get mainly for our gear.

" I'm really curious to know which rental house did this to you but I reckon I know already. "

Probably not one of our production sound specialist dealers...

Production houses in Aus are demanding operators have their own insurance because they are not covering the entire production - it's cheaper for them that way. Just like they're combining roles (transportographer) etc. I'm sure checking my insurance now.

And it may well have been one of 'our sound specialist dealers' as many of the rental houses are the sole distributor of sound equipment brands. Eg Zaxcom is only distributed in Aus by Lemac, probably one of the biggest rental chains down here.

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Production houses in Aus are demanding operators have their own insurance because they are not covering the entire production - it's cheaper for them that way. Just like they're combining roles (transportographer) etc. I'm sure checking my insurance now.

And it may well have been one of 'our sound specialist dealers' as many of the rental houses are the sole distributor of sound equipment brands. Eg Zaxcom is only distributed in Aus by Lemac, probably one of the biggest rental chains down here.

What Justin says is true, most production companies require us to carry $10million public liability insurance in order to work on their shoot!

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" most production companies require us to carry $10million public liability insurance "

as we have discussed before, carrying your own insurance is always professional, and a good idea. Just as we typically ask companies for certificates of insurance, my company, and others, are often asked for our insurance certificates, especially for installation and system maintenance contracts.

If your producers are requiring you to provide insurance, then that is like it is part of your kit, (and required "kit", even if no other kit is hired! Of course, a cost of doing business, and a part of our rates, and fees.

my insurance will not cover anyone who trips over a cable connecting me to the camera. OTOH, I'd question such an exclusion in a policy, as that is the sort of thing we are carrying insurance for!

" I'm really curious to know which rental house did this to you but I reckon I know already. "

OK, name the name!

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