JCC Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Hello. I recorded some separate audio on my SD 552. (Maybe 100 wave files), and I'm wondering if I can add TC to them (stter the fact). It doesn't have to match any other TC (cam didn't have TC) - I'd like to know in case they want to transcribe audio. thanks John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 They already have TOD stamped on them. Open them in Wave Agent to take a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Time of day is a default time code stamp if there isn't an external source detected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC Posted August 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 So, I'm using the 552 and TC was set to "stamp file", (given the option of off(?), replace L, replace R, and "stamp", it was on "stamp" - the blue TC light was flashing (indicating no TC in), Is it still recording TOD, in this case? Thank you. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 If the 552 doesn't detect an incoming TC it will use internal TOD. Download wave agent and take a look. http://www.sounddevices.com/products/waveagent.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC Posted August 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Thank you. I will. God bless you - and God bless Jeff Wexler! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC Posted August 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 So, I'm using the 552 and TC was set to "stamp file", (given the option of off(?), replace L, replace R, and "stamp", it was on "stamp" - the blue TC light was flashing (indicating no TC in), Is it still recording TOD, in this case? Thank you. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Page 27 of the manual: The 552 stamps time code values to recorded WAV and MP3 files according to the time and date clock. The 552 can also detect external Time Code signals and use them to stamp files. Time code is connected to the RTN B TA3 input connector. Time code on the RTN B connector is enabled in the Setup Menu (it is off from the factory). The RTN Loopback function is automatically disabled when a valid Time Code signal is detected. The time code (TC In) LED flashes blue when enabled in the Setup Menu but a valid time code signal is not detected. When a valid Time Code signal is detected, the Time Code LED illuminates solid blue. Time Code values are written to the file the moment the record key is pressed. This allows the Sound Mixer to sync the audio recorded by the 552 with the master source. So yes, timecode is still recorded. I believe if nothing is connected to the 552, it defaults to internal 30NDF TC, but since it's not referenced to camera, there will probably be drift. How much drift is hard to predict. If you try to change timecode values, or add timecode to a WAV file that wasn't originally recorded with timecode, the issue is that the timecode never had a valid reference signal, so it's not going to be 100% reliable. The advice above to check the file with Wave Agent is a good one. Courtney Goodin's BWF-Widget is also an excellent utility (albeit for Windows-only). --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Thank you Marc, and everyone. I went into wave agent and checked it out - I'm really glad there's a default. I am wondering if that default can be changed, though to 23.98 rather than 30nd. The Cannon was shooting 23.98 (though the selection says 24, right?). Is there any way to get my default tc to match closer to the camera's? Or is there only 1 default in this case. Also, If they're using pluraleyes, and it works (which I expect it will), will there still be drift due to different timecode frates, AND no camera TC signal - or, since pluraleyes matches waveforms, can we expect that the drift will be minimized? Thank you. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 " I am wondering if that default can be changed, though to 23.98 rather than 30nd. " what does the manual say?? what does SD say on their web site (FAQ's) ?? on their discussion group ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle_kumpis Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I had the same question as well awhile back. Here's what SD emailed me: If you are not using timecode at all, your timecode frame rate/ all TC settings are unused and unimportant. Even if you are using timecode on your video, if you are not linking the 552 to the camera or external timecode source, you cant use that timecode to sync from either the video or audio files since they do not have matching values. Since both video and audio are recorded in real time and neither file is slowed down or sped up, you should be able to stamp the timecode frame rate at what ever you want and still not have any issues syncing with Pluraleyes. The only way this may be an issue is if you are using FCP and it is automatically applying a pull down based on how the file is being imported. If that is the case, settings will need to be changed in FCP to not apply an automatic pull down, and Pluraleyes should work without issue, even if your frame rate is set at 30DF, 30 ND, 29.97, or 23.97. The timecode frame rate is only a factor when actually feeding the 552 a timecode source, in which case the 552 auto locks so there is no need to manually set it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Thanks Aristotle, That makes sense, and it also thankfully covers me arse. I reckon that since the audio TC frame rate isn't really recording in actual frames (on the 552), and since it's not recording direct to something that does (no need to create a frate lock onto the device that actually records in frates), then the media on the two devices should synch fine since they're both generally operating in real time and transients should match with pluraleyes accordingly. Does that sound reasonable? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I reckon that since the audio TC frame rate isn't really recording in actual frames (on the 552), and since it's not recording direct to something that does (no need to create a frate lock onto the device that actually records in frates), then the media on the two devices should synch fine since they're both generally operating in real time and transients should match with pluraleyes accordingly. Again, because you have two different devices (sound and picture) using two different crystals as references, they're not going to stay in exact sync 100%. Heck, two video cameras rolling at the same time won't stay in sync 100%, either, unless they're genlocked to a common reference. But they will probably stay in sync for short bursts. I've handled post on projects where they had 2 or 3 minute takes, and the drift was negligible -- maybe 1 frame in 3 minutes. This would be a big issue if you had, say, a 90-minute live concert, but short takes will probably be OK. Do a test and see what happens. Bear in mind there's a reason why reference signals and timecode are necessary. If they weren't, then audio recorders and cameras would be much simpler, and timecode slates would not have to exist. Read this excerpt from Wolf Seeberg's book on Sync Sound and Timecode. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 You mentioned you're hoping to sync with PluralEyes but not what platform you'll be cutting on. With at least some project setups in Final Cut, audio with 30 fps timecode stamps is pulled down to 29.97 fps. Since you on't need to worry about what the specific timecode numbers end up being, it might be worth using Wave Agent to restamp the files to 23.98 to prevent this happening. Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heinrichmack Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Hi the Wave Agent can fix the syncing in DSLR Video to my Taxcam DR-40 Audio? If the 552 doesn't detect an incoming TC it will use internal TOD. Download wave agent and take a look.http://www.sounddevices.com/products/waveagent.htm Hi is the Wave agent can fix the syncing Dslr Video to my Tascam DR-40 audio? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 "Hi the Wave Agent can fix the syncing in DSLR Video to my Taxcam DR-40 Audio" - Is that a question or statement? Doesn't make much sense either way. Never heard of a 'Taxcam' either. DSRLs do not have internal TC. The Tascam DR-40 can TOD stamp BWF files, but cannot be jammed from an external source. One could change the time-stamp in Wave Agent, but what's the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 DSLRs do have a form of TC, internal only, and not referenced to anything but its own clock. It's kind of like a counter. Wave Agent can't "fix" the sync of sound and picture except in the sense of changing the metadata of the audio file so it will be properly dealt with by a semi-smart edit system like FCP. You can use PluralEyes to sync DSLR footage to DR40 audio files just fine, but regular SMPTE TC will not be part of the process. Long files would drift out of sync, but since you can't shoot a long file with a DSLR anyhow it will probably all be fine. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 " DSLRs do have a form of TC, internal only, and not referenced to anything but its own clock. " and excellent and very important point... there are lots of time codes out there, but the only ones that matters in the professional movie sound biz are SMPTE/EBU time codes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Hi the Wave Agent can fix the syncing in DSLR Video to my Taxcam DR-40 Audio? No, WAV agent is a tool for manipulating sound files metadata, checking files, and creating sound reports. If there's sound on the DSLR videos, you can use PluralEyes to sync external sound to the camera's audio track (to a point). Beyond that, the wisest choice is to clap a slate and use the slate clap as a visual reference for the audible clap on the soundtrack. How long the take will stay in sync will depend on the stability of the camera and the sound recorder. Pro equipment can go hours without drifting; low-cost consumer or semi-pro gear (like DSLRs)... maybe a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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