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New to location recording- would appreciate some advice.


craigzarkos

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Hello folks-- I'm wondering if there is a pro audio dealer in the Los Angeles area that specializes in location audio gear sales/rentals that could advise me as a newbie on gear investment?

Is there a "Trew Audio" type place in LA?

Also, I've kind of stumbled into the location audio world by necessity, having produced some live music video/interviews at my studio. ( I'm a freelance drummer/producer/mixer )

Pretty basic at this point using a Zoom h4n and DIY boom pole-- minimal stuff, but it's gotten the job done so far for the DSLR based interview projects I'm doing.

I'd love to go a little deeper, and put together a proper rig that would be primarily for documentary type capture-- perhaps 4 wireless mics/ real boom(s) mixer/recorder. Something that I could grow with, is portable ( flyable) and something that I could rent to other recordist/filmmakers.

I realize there are zillion ways to skin this cat, and that there are several great pieces of gear out there, but any suggestions would be helpful.

starting budget under 6k if possible, if that helps.

thanks, and great forum!

craig z

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Welcome to the forum!

Before Senator chimes in, I will encourage you to use the search function in the forum, as these questions have been answered in great detail many times over.

The two reputable dealers in the LA area are Coffey Sound and Location Sound Corp.

Good luck,

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They are the two major players, but not the only reputable ones in town. Wilcox sound, as another example, has also been around for years, and they are equally competitive and knowledgeable, although stock fewer items.

I would not rely on any revenue from renting your gear to other mixers, but if you can somehow manage to do that and make it feasible, all power to you.

For $6k, you should be looking for used gear. You're not going to get 4 good wireless for that new. And even if you get a screaming deal on 4 used wireless, you're not going to have much left for anything else.

My advice is to rent (or have production provide) gear until you have a steady enough flow of work to be sure the investment is wise. Then buy as much good stuff as you can afford.

Robert

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Welcome! And good luck!

Doing the research is prime. Know what's out there, what it does and does not do, and how it is likely to fit into your extant gear and what you imagine your sound future to be.

Then, when the time comes (a job) you will be prepared to buy the right thing at the time to make that job go well.

You can't go wrong owning your principal dialog mic (there are many discussions here about the main players: Schoeps, Sennheiser, Neumann, etc.) shock mount, pole, and wind protection.

Suspect there will be some used recorder/mixers soon on the market once Nomad hits the shelves this month and next.

I've always let experience (renting gear that failed in the field and saying, "Never again!") and the job (the script tells me four wireless will be necessary and I only have two) inform purchase decisions. This is not easy to do if you haven't already filled your brain with the possibilities. Keeping up with the technology is darned near a full-time job (made easier by virtue of this forum and its collection of dedicated gear slutz).

All I got early this a.m.

-- Jan

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This certainly is a fun line of work! Welcome to it.

$6k isn't a huge sum to start with but it it's so place to start. Very wise, I know. :)

Check out the used Sound Devices 442 and 744t that are cropping up on the used market more and more these days. Those are both excellent pieces of gear that will probably serve you well for a long time. You could do a boom and four wireless and that would cover a lot of gigs.

I would also say to get the highest quality gear you can afford. Good wireless will eat up your budget pretty quickly but you could get a mixer, good shotgun mic, boom pole, and one wireless unit and the accessories.

As you said, there are a million ways to skin this cat. launching in to your first gear package can be daunting because all the little, needed pieces really add up. But, it is a lot of fun to get started!

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When you guys say "good wireless" would it be safe to say that something like the Sen-G3 type set up would not qualify?

Also, in many pics I've seen posted on larger gigs, there are two or more boom operators. In those situations, is there generally a dedicated mixer that is taking all these feeds, or are the boom operators working independent of each other?

Is there a FAQ, or Location sound for dummies type tutorial somewhere that would get me in the ball park? I've learned a few things just by trial and error ( more error ) and I understand the post mixing side of things pretty well, but this location recording/mixing thing seems to be somewhat of a black art-- I'd be more than happy to pay for some consulting by someone in the San Diego/LA area.

Here is an example of what I'm doing, this one being the first one I shot/edited. The VO is a crap AT lav into the Zoom. TONS of room tone on this. ick.

Obviously noisy as I figured out shortly after that perhaps monitoring what your recording in headphones might be a good idea. Tough when your asking the questions, babysitting a camera. :blink:

Lastly: I'm noticing some of these high-end machines with 8-12 tracks available. What kind of project would need that kind of track count, and what would be an input list example? I'm assuming reality tv where a bunch of wireless units are used... are tracks also used for ambience or FX sounds?

thanks guys.

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You're covering a huge amount of ground here with your questions... I'm not sure anyone here is going to be able to take a shot at all of this. Production sound recording (often called "location" recording as you say) is not a "black art", it is just an art or craft that you haven't learned yet. I know there must be books/articles/blogs written that would be a good starting point for you. I believe Marc Wielage, one of our most knowledgable members, has posted a list of good books written on the art and technique of recording. If the search function works you could look for that post with the list.

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As with anyone launching themselves into "location" sound recording, your questions are legion, and books are a great place to start. I do recall the very comprehensive list that Marc Wielage put together, You can find his list if you click on the "General Discussion" tab and on page 2 you'll find the topic, "Best book for Audio Professionals?"

I'll take a stab at your question regarding "high track count machines," The current trend in production sound recording is to provide for the editorial team isolated tracks "iso's" for each individual microphone in play for any scene being shot. My personal feelings behind this are that this "change" in track count on recorders was pushed forward by the "reality" world, where "mixers" are usually listening to three or four different microphones, on the fly with spontaneous conversations happening without rehersals. This "method" of recording gives the post folks a much better opportunity of "mixing" the scene in the editorial phase, than the over burdened production mixer, who's wielding a boom mic and carrying a 20lb bag of recorders, mixer, and receivers along with a "camera-hop" wireless transmitter sending your audio to the respective cameras.

Television shows, episodic "single camera" shows, or feature films would have a track count or layout something like this:

Channel 1 - Production Mix

Channel 2 - Boom #1

Channel 3 - Spin

Channel 4 - Marty

Channel 5 - Sheriff John

Channel 6 - Bozo

Channel 7 - Playback Track

Channel 8 - Boom #2

I think something that is misunderstood from an earlier post of Jeff's, is that Jeff doesn't "wire 'em all..." and try to boom what he can. Jeff boom's without any wireless mics on the talent, and Jeff employs wireless if and when the shot forces his hand, or Don's hands.

You also might want to go to Coffey Sound's website and read some issues of their 'zine, formerly known as the Audio Files, but now called Sound & Picture. www.coffeysound.com

In the issue with "Battle LA" on the cover, there's an article written by Paul Ledford the production mixer on the film, and he speaks about his use of multiple wireless units for a large cast and the use of high track count recorders, to capture all that is going on.

A quick reference of gear would be, IMO, Zaxcom are the high end for digital recorders and wireless mic systems, this is due to the high quality of parts used and in respect to their wireless units, the only fully digital wireless mic systems in use today. Then there's the rest, again IMO, Sound Devices has been in business a long time and has made some good low priced recorders and mixers, and with the SD 552 a mixer with a built in "back-up" recorder of sorts.

I'm a big fan of renting equipment before you purchase, so you can actually give the equipment your own "field testing" and then decide what your needs and budget can afford. To outlay all your money on equipment that you just read about online, may be a foolish move.

Good Luck and good listening, as CrewC says, "Earn and learn..."

Cheers,

Rich Van Dyke

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" in respect to their wireless units, the only fully digital wireless mic systems in use today. "

While there are other fully digital wireless systems available, the Zaxcom's are the only wireless that offer a built in recorder!

" would it be safe to say that something like the Sen-G3 type set up would not qualify? "

NO

" two or more boom operators. In those situations, is there generally a dedicated mixer that is taking all these feeds, or are the boom operators working independent of each other? "

It depends... I don't know what picture you are looking at, it could be either way...

" Location sound for dummies type tutorial somewhere that would get me in the ball park? "

Location production Sound is too small a niche for a "Dummies", but there are several books, including Jay Rose's at www.dplay.com, and John Fielden's at http://site.myplanet...om/catalog.html (Roll Sound and Videographer's Audio Guide --and available from the "usual suspects") and some others from Focal Press

" perhaps monitoring what your recording in headphones might be a good idea. " DOH

" I understand the post mixing side of things pretty well, " + " are tracks also used for ambience or FX sounds? "

you definately need to study Jay's books...

Even with the "Search" function currently crippled, there is a lot of excellent information available here by reading threads on equipment, manufacturers and dealers, workflow, and lots LOTS more. Also at www.coffeysound.com you can look up and read all the excellent articles they have published including conversations/interviews with top mixers from top shows and there are equipment reviews, too.

Production (Location) Sound for movies/VDO is not like other kinds of sound (records, PA, etc.) and is not plug 'n play

Edited by studiomprd
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The list of books (on both location sound recording and some ancillary subjects) is at this link:

Some LA companies I've dealt with:

Coffey Sound & Communications

3325 West Cahuenga Blvd.

Hollywood, CA 90068

(323) 876-7525

http://www.CoffeySound.com/

Location Sound Corp.

10639 Riverside Drive

N. Hollywood, CA 91602

(818) 980-9891

http://www.locationsound.com

The Audio Department

2700 W. Burbank Blvd.

Burbank, CA 91505

(818) 566-3000

http://www.audiodepartment.tv/

Wilcox Communications

7680 Clybourn Ave. - Suite #B

Sun Valley, CA 91352

(818) 557-3377

http://www.wilcoxsound.com/

(818) 504-0507

Each of them has pros and cons; I've generally had good experiences with all of them, and there's very helpful people at every company. You're very well advised to rent gear before you buy, and if you're on a tight budget (especially for wireless), consider buying used.

--Marc W.

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When you guys say "good wireless" would it be safe to say that something like the Sen-G3 type set up would not qualify?

Sennheiser wireless is fine, especially if you're just starting out. Eventually you might feel the need to upgrade, but G3s are really pretty spectacular in terms of bang-for-your-buck. If you only have $6k to work with, I'd highly recommend going with Sennheiser wireless instead of, say, used Lectros.

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Hey thanks guys for all the links and help-

Today was probably the 4th time I've been audio guy on the gig-- had fun recording an interview with Betty White. Classic lady.

Got it done with the Zoom H4N, and my AT short boom. After the job, I stopped by at Coffee Sound in LA. I'm kinda wishing I hadn't fondled SD788T in person, I can feel another gear obsession coming on...

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