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Comtek PR216 scratch mix to RED


Zack

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I've been having some issues just using a Comtek RX on my buddy's RED lately for delivering a scratch track. Seems as though there's some drastic interference coming from the RED that's messing with the Rx. Was curious if anyone else might have experienced this with the same set-up? I can take off the Rx and move a few inches away from the RED and it's fine... soon as I put it back on... drop outs.. fwips, hits, squacks..etc..etc.. I've tried different channels without much improvement.

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To elaborate more on what the Senator said...

The RED camera emits quite a bit of RF. Computers, hard drives, etc all emit a certain amount of RF and the RED is a computer with a lens.

If you can change frequencies on your Comtek that may solve your issue. If you can't then see about having the Comtek not mounted directly to the camera or perhaps on a different spot on the camera. If you can clip it to the camera ops belt with a short XLR that would work as well. Of course, then you have to convince the camera op to deal with that receiver.

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Yes. I had this issue on a movie I did a while ago. It was intermittent, and it was only for reference, so I never fixed it. The only reason I knew about it was that I was shown a clip we were reshooting, and it was camera audio. I said, "Holy crap! What is that noise?" The editor said it was camera audio, but he didn't care as they were syncing my tracks anyway.

I haven't run audio to camera since.

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I've been sending a scratch mix to a red on a shot I'm working currently. I can see the RF raise on my 201 a few notches when I put it with in inches. Production knows its an unmonitored mix and camera doesn't want it any where else so good thing they call it a scratch mix. If I have the resources I think its better to give them something rather than nothing...as long as they know, but what do I know.

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Hi Zack. I've had various problems feeding an RF guide track to RED. I think because the Comtek PR216 receiver uses the connecting cable as part of the antenna circuit, interference may be more of a problem than, say, a sennheiser G2. I've had very good luck with the G series feeding a RED.

good luck, Chris Newton

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I've been sending a scratch mix to a red on a shot I'm working currently. I can see the RF raise on my 201 a few notches when I put it with in inches. Production knows its an unmonitored mix and camera doesn't want it any where else so good thing they call it a scratch mix. If I have the resources I think its better to give them something rather than nothing...as long as they know, but what do I know.

I disagree. Something bad is not better than nothing. If they don't "need" sound to camera for dailies (bad idea) or for PluralEyes (required), then it should not be provided. It's more work for you and something to make you look bad if it's not perfect.

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I disagree. Something bad is not better than nothing. If they don't "need" sound to camera for dailies (bad idea) or for PluralEyes (required), then it should not be provided. It's more work for you and something to make you look bad if it's not perfect.

Good point about giving something bad, but how can any wireless mix to camera that isn't monitored always be good? Isn't it a common practice to send a comtek scratch mix? And I value monitoring directly from my 744t rather than the return on the 442, so I'm not sure how I would monitor the camera return. What do you do when they want sound for dailies but you can't monitor it?

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Hi Zack. I've had various problems feeding an RF guide track to RED. I think because the Comtek PR216 receiver uses the connecting cable as part of the antenna circuit, interference may be more of a problem than, say, a sennheiser G2. I've had very good luck with the G series feeding a RED.

good luck, Chris Newton

Note that one of the two antennas (or "antennae" in Senator-speak) for the G-2's diversity system is that pesky output cable. Just sayin'......

Best regards,

Jim

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Good point about giving something bad, but how can any wireless mix to camera that isn't monitored always be good? Isn't it a common practice to send a comtek scratch mix? And I value monitoring directly from my 744t rather than the return on the 442, so I'm not sure how I would monitor the camera return. What do you do when they want sound for dailies but you can't monitor it?

I talk them out of camera audio for dailies. It's so easy to auto-sync, so dailies should be your mix.

But I am writing about properly staffed projects. Other jobs may have other requirements.

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I ran in the same problem with a G2 on the red. Midway through the feature the camera guy asked if I not record to camera. For some reason it was given an audio error so he suggested to remove it and from then on we never had that issues again. To be honest I hate recording to camera I prefer to record separately. That way I can monitor it and know for sure its good/bad.

Nicole

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" interference may be more of a problem than, say, a sennheiser G2 "

" Note that one of the two antennas (or "antennae" in Senator-speak) for the G-2's diversity system is that pesky output cable. "

actually that is on the G3's

" something to make you look bad if it's not perfect. "

" can any wireless mix to camera that isn't monitored always be good? " probably not

" What do you do when they want sound for dailies but you can't monitor it? "

which happens a lot, and then you are in a bad spot, and do the best you can...

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" Note that one of the two antennas (or "antennae" in Senator-speak) for the G-2's diversity system is that pesky output cable. "

actually that is on the G3's

I stand corrected. My only experience with the G-2 line is with the ac powered diversity receivers, and assuming made an ass out of me. But no matter where you go, there you are.

Nicole, audio faults on the Red One have nothing to do with what's plugged into them, it's a "canary in the coal mine" system warning and I've been on jobs where all audio recording has been disabled for a sequence of shots or where the camera was treated as a picture-only device all day long with all audio disabled, and the camera has thrown up an audio fault warning.

Best regards,

Jim

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Zack: are you using Comtek 72s or 216s? I used 72s a few times and never heard of any issues. So, either no issues, or they were happy to have *something* on camera. Either way, I never had a complaint.

I usually use G2s for my Red scratch, and maybe have issues with range, but not much of an issue in most cases. I am only using it as a scratch track, so it doesn't have to be perfect (forcing them to sync the real audio).

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My negative experience was with 72s.

Honestly, I don't get why we send audio to camera if it's not to be used. There are a number of ways to quickly sync audio, and it's bad workflow to start editing before syncing audio.

Just tell them it will cost more to put receivers on the camera. That usually turns them off to the idea.

Robert

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Good point about giving something bad, but how can any wireless mix to camera that isn't monitored always be good? Isn't it a common practice to send a comtek scratch mix? And I value monitoring directly from my 744t rather than the return on the 442, so I'm not sure how I would monitor the camera return. What do you do when they want sound for dailies but you can't monitor it?

I think all you can do is do a test recording at the beginning of the day, check it again at lunch, and again at wrap and assume all was well. If you can't monitor the camera feed 100% of the time, then it's a crapshoot.

I generally tell my clients, "all I'm sending to camera is just a scratch mix to help you sync up the 'real' audio on the recorder. I wouldn't trust it for anything except checking performance, and I wouldn't use that track for dailies." I've had luck with both the Lectro SR and the D4, and I'll use one or the other depending on the budget and what's required by post. They have to remember that an assistant editor can easily sync up 2-3 hours' of dailies in close to real time, especially if there's a scratch track, so this is not rocket science (nor is it expensive).

--Marc W.

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Most of my RED shoots are features. Some have an editor on site that is syncing my sound. If nothing else, that scratch track is useful for playback purposes. It's not often that they need the playback audio, but on occasion it helps.

I have minimal issues with the G2 scratch hop. I put in 2 powerex AA batteries and it lasts a work day. I never monitor it, and neither does anyone from camera department. I never get a complaint, and I think post considers it a bonus.

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" (forcing them to sync the real audio). "

"forcing them" is something that makes me nervous

I know how I feel about it when someone forces me to do something, anything....

I've worked on jobs where a lazy editor tries to use the camera audio, even when it is of a lower quality. The producer, that signs my checks, is generally happy with an "obviously scratch" track so he knows post is using the dialog from my recorder. I've even worked with producers that don't want me feeding camera at all to avoid this (relying on camera mic for scratch/slate/reference).

I suppose I am not forcing them to do anything, but it would be obvious to anyone if they take the lazy way out.

The producer hires me to do the job, and that I have no moral issues with what they want, so I'm happy.

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back on topic, in the future I am going to have to do more monitoring of the camera audio and see if we have issues. Maybe post is ok with it sounding a lot crappier than I realize it does.

Could it be some sort of extra equipment that is killing the signal? Wireless video TX or something? Wireless focus? I wonder if it is general RF spray, or some frequencies of Comtek or G2 are less prone to problems.

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  • 2 years later...

This interference issue between the Red Epic and Comtek PR216 has been also the case for me on a current project I'm working on with the Epic. It's only a scratch track, but was intended on being used for primary playback.. Methods I've tried are changing channels, remounting to diff position, changing actual comteks, changing channels on Red, going from unbalanced to balanced on Red. I'm using a custom cable I bought from Remote audio intended to feed a stereo 1/8th inch input on a DSLR from a PR216 comtek transmitter which is about 18" and has a built in 40db pad and am not sure of the exact wiring config. Has anyone tried a cable with an RF blocker for the receiver or had a custom cable built for this exact config that may help eliminate this interference?

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