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moving from a MKH 416T to a Neumann KMR 81i?


Elephant_Talk

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I would buy the kmr81 and keep the 416 as others have said. Ive just finished two features where i used the kmr81 all the time and i love it, it goes very well with my dpa 4060's and the sanken cub 1 and the sound is less sterile than my schoeps (not that its really sterile sounding but the kmr81 is just 'warmer'). Also i do find it really good in interiors despite being a shotgun (unlike the 416) I did experience the random RF problems in 1 exterior but just kept the mic position stationary luckily it was for a shouting action scene where the boom op didn't have to swing. That is the reason to keep the 416 also humidity and rain can cause problems. I think the sound of the kmr is moddled on the km84/km85 sound, pity they didnt keep the transformers and the fet circuit cos the km85 makes the kmr sound a bit thin. Also one last note, 'nice sounding' mic to me means less ear fatigue which ends up being important after the stupid hours ive ended up doing recently.

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  • 3 months later...

Each and every recording environment brings its own set of variables. There are too many to list here, but while doing interiors the chief trio is almost always the acoustics of the room, the voice you are recording, and the distance the microphone will be from that voice. The 416 vs. 81 debate has been thoroughly hashed out many times over the years (and even that of the CS-3e or CMIT compared to either or both), but the lack of a definitive answer anywhere stems from those constantly changing variables depending upon which room, which voice, and how close you are able to get.

To be very general, I think it's safe to say that the 416 is a FAR more versatile mic. It can sound more beautiful than just about any mic in the right hands or at the right distance, given the proper environment. It can be very demanding on the operator in challenging situations. It is often the favorite mic of boom operators on episodic and feature work because it doesn't require the operator to sit at millimeter's length from the frameline in order to get a voice to register properly. While it can exaggerate sibilance, it isn't an inherently noisy mic, so if you're experiencing a lot of self-noise it might be time for the mic to take a vacation to Connecticut or Germany.

The 81 is far less versatile, but has a unique character that can be quite delicious under the right circumstances. It will comparatively fail where the 416 will succeed in many difficult situations in my opinion, but when you get thrown a softball of a recording situation it'll sometimes succeed far better -- again taking into account the ever-changing variables of acoustics, voice characteristics and level, and microphone subject-to-distance ratio.

It's also subject to taste, of course.

I guess the short answer is "it depends..."

It's also worth noting for those who want to show up with just one microphone that the 416 is fairly bombproof in terms of RF and humidity issues. The 81 is not.

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I have never had the chance to work with a Neumann shotgun but must agree with most that it might be more practical to get yourself a hyper cardioid like the MKH50 rather than another very similar shotgun mic. The 416's weakness for me is reverberant interiors, and something like a mkh50 really has to be tried out to be believed.. you will be amazed at the difference (if you havnt already tried:)

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I have never had the chance to work with a Neumann shotgun but must agree with most that it might be more practical to get yourself a hyper cardioid like the MKH50 rather than another very similar shotgun mic. The 416's weakness for me is reverberant interiors, and something like a mkh50 really has to be tried out to be believed.. you will be amazed at the difference (if you havnt already tried:)

+1 for the MKH 50.

Eric

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  • 3 years later...
  • 5 months later...
1 hour ago, Elusive Sounds said:

I've been working with my used KMR81i in cold temperatures, -18, -20 Celsius with the wind chill. It's been performing wonderfully.  

Temperature is not an issue with Neumanns. And I've not yet encountered trouble with humid conditions, though in pouring rain I tend towards an 816 anyway for better dialog/rain ratio.

On 14.8.2015 at 0:26 AM, Rick Reineke said:

Like the 416, it's an interference tube design, which are inherently problematic in reverberant spaces. I would not expect that much of a change. A nice mic though just the same. I would look for a MKH 50 or similar hyper-card for interiors.

The change between a 416 and a 81 in reverberant rooms, especially smaller rooms with low-mid trouble, is enormous. A 416 tends to exaggerate low-mid trouble, the 81 is quite clean in its off-axis response, and in some cases has won over a 185 or 641 for me.

It doesn't, however, reject surrounding bright noises as efficiently as a 416.

Indoors, we use a 416 regularly for whispering scenes. The small treble boosted sweet spot enhances the whispering effect without enhancing crew rustle, and when there is no low-mid content in the dialog, there can't be a low-mid room sound issue.

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KMR81 is a wonderful sounding microphone. I had to stop using it because of the sensitivity to RF and humidity as Glen Trew mentioned. KMR82 was a pretty cool microphone too but got rid of that too for the same reasons. MKH-50 gets my vote for your needs. MKH8050 is pretty good too and small.

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