JDirckze Posted September 3, 2011 Report Posted September 3, 2011 In terms of files... I'm quite new to the world of multi-track location recorders, having in the past only ever recorded direct to camera, however, more recently I have been doing a few more gigs where 744's have been required, and I'm currently on an 11 week job using a 788/CL8. So of course now the choice of which recorder to buy has presented itself, and my question is, in terms of post and post workflow, would there be any difference between handing in a card that has been recorded on a 788 or one recorded on a Nomad? How about the metadata etc? If I was on a gig where every soundo was using a 788 and I showed up with a Nomad, would post be able to tell the Nomad tracks vs the 788's? Sorry if this is a silly question, like I said, still a little new to all this. Cheers, Jason Quote
Jeff Wexler Posted September 3, 2011 Report Posted September 3, 2011 If I was on a gig where every soundo was using a 788 and I showed up with a Nomad, would post be able to tell the Nomad tracks vs the 788's? Sorry if this is a silly question, like I said, still a little new to all this. Cheers, Jason Well, it depends. The files themselves, audio, timecode, metadata will be identical between the Sound Devices 788T and any of the Zaxcom Deva/Fusion/Nomad recorders. The file NAME will be different since most all of the recorders in use today handle the file naming differently. Do not confuse the file name with metadata --- if the important metadata is entered in the metadata fields as dictated by the industry standard broadcast wave file format (things like scene and take), this metadata will be available in the same manner to all in post (regardless of the machine being used). As for the file name, I don't have a list of all the different types of naming that are possible on the various recorders but I do know that the Zaxcom recorders (Nomad included) use a SEGMENT number in the file name (this being a sequential incremented number representing each recorded segment). Sound Devices provides for the file name to be Scene and Take number (have I got that right --- been a long time since I used by 744T) and the wisdom of doing it that way has been debated for awhile, here and elsewhere. So, I don't think you would ever get in trouble on any job in terms of workflow incompatibility unless the specific job was relying solely on the file name being a Scene and Take number. I believe for most jobs that are being done "in the bag" or on un-scripted reality shows, the mixer has little time (or so I'm told) to enter scene and take info --- post will rely exclusively on timecode to achieve post sync. Quote
Eric Toline Posted September 3, 2011 Report Posted September 3, 2011 Everything else being equal, audio wise there should be no difference if that was the question. Eric Quote
Philip Perkins Posted September 3, 2011 Report Posted September 3, 2011 One small factor is that the 788 has been used successfully in the field by many soundies the world over for a few years now, and the Nomad has not really been used much yet by anyone. No knock on Zaxcom, but it is a new product. This is to say that we don't know what the real-world live-fire-job issues will turn out to be w/ Nomad yet, something I'd like to know before jumping in.... phil p Quote
JDirckze Posted September 3, 2011 Author Report Posted September 3, 2011 Everything else being equal, audio wise there should be no difference if that was the question. Eric Thanks Eric, Just really interested in the file specifics rather than the audio capabilities... Quote
JDirckze Posted September 3, 2011 Author Report Posted September 3, 2011 @Jeff, Thanks for the reply. I'm only working from a bag so we usually just name our scene/takes the same as the top level folder, with T01, T02 etc for 'takes' Quote
RPSharman Posted September 3, 2011 Report Posted September 3, 2011 Thanks Eric, Just really interested in the file specifics rather than the audio capabilities... I think it would be accurate to say that with exception of file names, broadcast WAV files recorded with SD or Zaxcom recorders are the "same". The difference might be how the files are placed in folders and such. The Nomad stuff might look different from the 788T stuff, but I don't see that as a problem. Assistant editors might huff at having to move the files around, but it is their job. Our job is recording sound. If you want a Nomad, then buy one. I'm sure they're great. Robert Quote
Jeff Wexler Posted September 3, 2011 Report Posted September 3, 2011 I agree with what Philip says: "One small factor is that the 788 has been used successfully in the field by many soundies the world over for a few years now, and the Nomad has not really been used much yet by anyone." This doesn't apply directly to the question about file types amongst the various recorders but is sage advice on all accounts when thinking about what to buy. I would not have wanted to purchase and go out on a job with the very first SD 788T even having had experience with other Sound Devices products such as the SD 744T I did own. Same goes for Nomad to a certain extent. Since I already have such a long experience with Zaxcom and Nomad utilizes so much of the software that Deva and Fusion use, I personally would not hesitate to use Nomad on a job as soon as I could get my hands on one. If Jason has the time, my recommendation would be to get his hands on a Nomad, put it through its paces before going to work with it. Quote
Philip Perkins Posted September 3, 2011 Report Posted September 3, 2011 I agree with what Philip says: "One small factor is that the 788 has been used successfully in the field by many soundies the world over for a few years now, and the Nomad has not really been used much yet by anyone." This doesn't apply directly to the question about file types amongst the various recorders but is sage advice on all accounts when thinking about what to buy. I would not have wanted to purchase and go out on a job with the very first SD 788T even having had experience with other Sound Devices products such as the SD 744T I did own. Same goes for Nomad to a certain extent. Since I already have such a long experience with Zaxcom and Nomad utilizes so much of the software that Deva and Fusion use, I personally would not hesitate to use Nomad on a job as soon as I could get my hands on one. If Jason has the time, my recommendation would be to get his hands on a Nomad, put it through its paces before going to work with it. I think my strategy will be to rent first, since I'm sure the LA pro audio dealers will buy at least a few for their rental stock.... phil p Quote
glenn Posted September 3, 2011 Report Posted September 3, 2011 The Nomad file generator is taken straight from the Deva. The Zaxcom file format predates all other location recording systems and is compatible all relevant post production systems. I do not see any compatibility issues because of our experience. I think a discussion of differences should focus on the advantages of the Nomad. IFB transmission, time code transmission, wireless microphone remote control, 12 ISO track recording, low power consumption and heat generation, input and output configurations, MP3 recording, wireless file transfer, mixing abilities, input limiters, preamps and many other topics. I will be at IBC in a week with Nomad and hope to see many of you there. Glenn Quote
Dennis Kersten Posted September 3, 2011 Report Posted September 3, 2011 @ Glenn; I don't know if I'm going to make it to the IBC but I see/meet you in the evening of the 9th at Audio Electronics Matthijsen, I'm looking forward to it! Quote
glenn Posted September 3, 2011 Report Posted September 3, 2011 This will be the first time presenting at Audio Electronics Matthijsen. I am really looking forward to being there. I will have a full presentation of our existing and new products presented at IBC. I will also be giving a seminar this Wednesday in the UK presented by Everything Audio. Glenn Quote
rich Posted September 4, 2011 Report Posted September 4, 2011 Where is the UK Seminar? its at elstree studios. starts around 1930 Quote
Philip Perkins Posted September 4, 2011 Report Posted September 4, 2011 The Nomad file generator is taken straight from the Deva. The Zaxcom file format predates all other location recording systems and is compatible all relevant post production systems. I do not see any compatibility issues because of our experience. I think a discussion of differences should focus on the advantages of the Nomad. IFB transmission, time code transmission, wireless microphone remote control, 12 ISO track recording, low power consumption and heat generation, input and output configurations, MP3 recording, wireless file transfer, mixing abilities, input limiters, preamps and many other topics. I will be at IBC in a week with Nomad and hope to see many of you there. Glenn Sure--I'd like to discuss those things, especially after a bunch of professionals have actually gotten to use the thing in the field and have informed opinions abut all those cool features! phil p Quote
johnpaul215 Posted September 4, 2011 Report Posted September 4, 2011 Jason- I own a Fusion, and as Glenn said the Nomad file system will be the same. I have worked on jobs where I was mixed in with Fostex recorders and Sound Devices. I haven't had any issues. I am guessing you are talking about reality gigs with multiple soundies all running around with their own recorder. The biggest thing on those jobs is that the timecode is all jammed/locked. If it is, post just needs to make sure they drop the audio in the right day and it will be fine. They may balk slightly if they never dealt with a Zaxcom recording (possible in reality TV I suppose), but if they have, even the producers booking you know it's fine. I have literally had them say "I see you own a Fusion, and we've hired people with Zaxcom recorders before and everything worked great". Unless instructed otherwise, I make a folder each day with the name being the date (like 31August). Every file recorded that day will get 31August as a prefix, so it's easy to tell. The TC in the recording itself will sync it up with everyone else (camera and sound). Quote
JDirckze Posted September 4, 2011 Author Report Posted September 4, 2011 Jason- I own a Fusion, and as Glenn said the Nomad file system will be the same. I have worked on jobs where I was mixed in with Fostex recorders and Sound Devices. I haven't had any issues. I am guessing you are talking about reality gigs with multiple soundies all running around with their own recorder. The biggest thing on those jobs is that the timecode is all jammed/locked. If it is, post just needs to make sure they drop the audio in the right day and it will be fine. They may balk slightly if they never dealt with a Zaxcom recording (possible in reality TV I suppose), but if they have, even the producers booking you know it's fine. I have literally had them say "I see you own a Fusion, and we've hired people with Zaxcom recorders before and everything worked great". Unless instructed otherwise, I make a folder each day with the name being the date (like 31August). Every file recorded that day will get 31August as a prefix, so it's easy to tell. The TC in the recording itself will sync it up with everyone else (camera and sound). Thanks John Paul, You're pretty spot on with my concerns. I don't know any location audio guys over here that are using Zaxcom. It is ALL Sound Devices and I don't want to lose jobs because there is some incompatibility with post or the usual files that get handed to post from 788's... And thanks to all for the advice and feedback. Cheers, Jason Quote
AudioNinja Posted September 5, 2011 Report Posted September 5, 2011 788 is the way to go IMHO, nomad is too new, quirks to be worked out. Quote
Bash Posted September 5, 2011 Report Posted September 5, 2011 Hi Jon, the UK presentation is this Wednesday, head for the bar at Elstree Studios, Shenley Road, Borehamwood, Herts, WD6 1JG. If you are coming, the could you please let Roger Patel know, everythingaudio@o2.co.uk, or text to 07768342627. You will be very welcome, bring a pal!! Kindest regards, Simon B Where is the UK Seminar? Quote
Michael Posted September 6, 2011 Report Posted September 6, 2011 Metadata wise they may be able to tell the differenceif all the other guys you work with take lots of notes in the metadata. The deva is limited to 16 characters in the notes field. If what Glenn is saying is accurate then it stands that the nomad will be simmerly limited. No long shot descriptions, you are stuck with things like; ok, good, plane. Of course this only matters If you have time to take those notes and don't mind carrying around a clipboard of sound reports. Ps: anyone want to buy a deva 16? I'm sick of the personality quirks such as the above Quote
Jeff Wexler Posted September 6, 2011 Report Posted September 6, 2011 How long have you had your Deva 16 before you got sick of it? Just asking. Quote
old school Posted September 6, 2011 Report Posted September 6, 2011 Ps: anyone want to buy a deva 16? I'm sick of the personality quirks such as the above What price? I would like 16 tracks at a price point that reflects a used price point. 16 is the new 8. CrewC Quote
Michael Posted September 6, 2011 Report Posted September 6, 2011 @Jeff about a year and a half. @crewC I'll get back to you. Have to look at some numbers. Which state are you in? Quote
Jeff Wexler Posted September 6, 2011 Report Posted September 6, 2011 Knowing Crew it's hard to say what state he's in... I'm sure he'll let you know. Quote
old school Posted September 6, 2011 Report Posted September 6, 2011 Usually the state of Denial, and I don't mean the river..... ;~) CrewC Quote
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