Simon Paine Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Seeing Jeff's picture from " An Officer And A Gentleman" got me thinking about the use of the huge monster shotgun mics. How does the 816 sound ? I used one once during an interview, more for a lark rather then out of necessity. I just wanted to see how it sounded. It was under very controlled circumstances, in a studio setting, so i didn't need to go way overhead with the mic. It reminded me of the 416. The look on the interviewee was priceless, when she looked up and saw this huge mic just over her head, but i digress. How does it (and also the Mkh-70 and KMR82I) perform out on location ? Are you generally using it when you need to cover really wide shots ? Or are you using it when you need extra rejection of off axis sounds ? I know one mixer who always wants his boom op to use the big shotgun out doors. No matter how close he can get the mic in to the scene. I think i also read somewhere, someone say that the big shotguns were brought out when wireless were not as reliable or as nice sounding as they are today, to try and get that extra reach you couldn't achieve with normal mics. Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim apter Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 yeah, this is a question that deserves some talk, i think. i often wonder exactly the same thing, and actually asked it in the officer and a gentleman thread, but this is the right place to talk about it. my main thing is, what are we trading off for having that extra precise pickup? there must be some drawbacks to the mic, or EVERYONE would use one outdoors. and what really makes me suspicious of long guns is that short guns exist. If long guns were as awesome as they sound, then everyone would have long guns, and hypers, and short guns would be like the outcasts that long guns are now. i used an at4071a the other day, and own an 816, and personally, i think these mics sound really cool. but im just a novice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tourtelot Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 My 816s eliminates an awful lots of scenes on radio mics. . . .But you need an excellent, not just even pretty good, boomman to poit it. It will suck the dialog off a trailer hitch in the right hands and sound like s**t in the wrong hands. I am fortunate to have a team member who can use my 816s with great aplomb. I will amost always use it in a zepellin, and it frequently lives at the end of a long boom so it is a bear to operate. BTW, I think that the MKH70 and I know that the Neumann KMR81i don't hold a candle to a well swung 816. IMHO. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim apter Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 thats great info...and good for me with my freebie 816 i havent even used yet. any other opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 When the 800 series mics first came out , they were a real breakthru in directional mics, and much smaller, higher output and generally better sounding than previous attempts to make a really directional mic. But since their invention a number of other mics have come out that show up some of the shortcomings of the 816. To my ears, the Neumann KMR82 almost has the reach of the 816, but a nicer sound that cuts better with Schoeps and other Neumann mics in a package that doesn't demand the physique of a pro-linebacker to use on a long pole in the wind. The Sanken CS3 has a very original design using 3 capsules that is quite directional in an even smaller package, and has much less sensitivity to the mic's rear. The later Sennheiser shotguns (MKH70) keep a lot of the good things about the 816, but I like the sound better. The new Schoeps shotgun seems to combine a lot of things I like about the Schoeps MK41 and the Neumann KMR82 in one mic, but smaller and lighter. I think the 816 is a great tool to have around for when things get really hairy--but I think some of these other mics would give you less harsh sounding dialog in less-than-dire situations. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim apter Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 philip, what situations have you used the 816 in when its been a life saver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 philip, what situations have you used the 816 in when its been a life saver? What Doug said--when getting something intelligible is the best you can hope for, like a very noisy set and wardrobe that makes a lav mic impossible. Also as he said, you really need a boom op who is A: strong enough to manage the thing on a long pole and B: hip enough to be able to follow the action. Sometimes it has been really great, other times, with other boom ops, I've had to consider other options. When working and booming by myself I've found that the mic is just too big to manage and mix at the same time, while I often get away with the Neumann in solo situations. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim apter Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 ok, thanks... so perhaps a great mic to have for eng, but not as great for film. unless its a very specific, last ditch situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 ok, thanks... so perhaps a great mic to have for eng, but not as great for film. unless its a very specific, last ditch situation. That's not what I said, or at least not what I meant. The 816 would NOT be a great mic for ENG, since that usually means one-man-band, and it's too large for that. It IS great for exterior dramatic dialog scenes in noisy locations, as you would often find in feature films and TV drama shot on either film or video. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry long Posted March 11, 2006 Report Share Posted March 11, 2006 In my package the only mic's that have worked are the 50's int and ext for awhile now, I kept some 60's around but I dislike thier sound. I just got a cs3e and I look foward to using it. Scouting the other day in downtown DC, I learned we have a long dialog scene in a very noisy environment, with a couple of guys in suits, so I called back home and said , err umm don't ebay that 82 yet! send it up I think I might actually need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim apter Posted March 11, 2006 Report Share Posted March 11, 2006 philip, thanks for clearing that up for me, yes you're right its way to heavy for one man to boom and mix with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tourtelot Posted March 12, 2006 Report Share Posted March 12, 2006 That' what's cool about production sound. I absolutely HATE the sound of the KMR81i and the MKH70 is worse to my ears. I believe that the reach on either is barely better than a Mk41 and the Neumann is, again to my ears, way too muddy to be of any use. If I am trying to grab words in a noisy environment, I want to be able to distinguish the words! Nothing does that like an 816. In those scenarios, I am looking for intelligebility, not the need to cut with a mic that won't be playing in the scene. I mean come on, how manny times have you shot an exterior scene that cut a Schoeps with a shotgun? The 816 cuts fine with aired-out lavs and if I needed it in the first place, rather than say, the CS-3e, I'll stay on it all the way to the CU. It won't ride the frameline in the CU; too much proximety effect, but it works great from two feet out for a CU. As I said, it sounds thin and shitty off-axis but maybe you guys who think it sounds thin ought to walk out on the set and make sure your boomman has it pointed at the actor's mouth. A little off is a very bad thing with this mic, but right on, nothing touches it. Too bad I sold my 82s years ago. It looks like I have lots of suckers, I mean buyers, for them now. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Terry Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Good to hear about the old 816 here. I would ebay mine in a heart beat but I keep seeing them sell for only $100 or so. I have $500 tied up in 816 zeppelins... Despite the discussion here, mine will still live on a shelf on my truck. Yes the mic has great reach, yes it is great in the wind, but it it too heavy for modern boom ops. My guys won't use them. Even when using Fisher booms where the mass of the mic can be counter balanced to zero, I see boom folks pervering 60's because they are forgiving and familiar. Proof once again that I am an old guy, because in my younger days All My Children using nothing but 815's, and none of the boomers thought they were hard to cue accurately. Speaking of using long mics on Fishers...obviously these mics work best on exteriors, or on interiors that are so large and dead that the weird off axis reflections do not come into play. David Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim apter Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 im very much in the market to buy a zeppelin for my 816 if you are keen to sell... got it for free from a friend, but cant do much without a zep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjh Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 i'm in the market for a 2nd hand 816 too, phamtom pref with full rycote. anything considered. cheers, chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmassey Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 The 816 rides along in the PELICAN all over the world...last time it came out, a long walk by a basketball player and his wife getting off a floatplane on a very busy dock in St. Thomas...they walked...the shooter and I walked backwards and boomed...but nothing else would have let me hear what they had to say. When we did playback, I was AMAZED!!! And for only about the third time in 30+ years got a call from the post folks telling me how great that scene was, and how the HE-- did I mic it? Remains OUR little secret now... cleve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergiofucchi Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Good morning at all. I am new here. I have bought a 816T and I would to know how I have to turn the inteference grid when I point this mic. The others shotgun mics have two grids, but this has only one, Thank You. (I'm sorry for my english.... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickveigel Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I have an KMR 82i with zeppelin in great shape for sale. I can send pictures if interested. The mic is in Berlin, Germany but I can ship everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanross Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Don't forget the new Rode NT8. Looks very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanross Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Sorry, Rode NTG8. http://www.rodemic.com/mics/ntg8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswoolf Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Despite being an updated version of the MKH816 (the same RF capacitor principle) Rode haven't managed to use lighter materials to make the NTG8 - so it is just as heavy. Boom ops who have had to use these monsters have little love for them. The 70 - 90g of a DPA 4015 or a Schoeps CMIT is a lot kinder on the biceps than the 345g of an NTG8 or the 375g of an 816. The newer MKH8070 is a better bet, to my ears, than the unloved MKH70. It is a little lighter and shorter than the Rode (though not a lot) but has just as much "suck". However the Schoeps SuperCMIT has quite as much directivity in its "gentle" mode as any long shotgun, and manages that at LF as well - something that no simple interference tube microphone can ever equal. While the long shotgun was a wonderful beast in its day - and new ones are still being brought out, including the not-to-be-sneezed-at Shure VP89 - I suspect the future of highly directional mics is through elegant electronics rather than brute force pipework. Chris Woolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 " how I have to turn the inteference grid when I point this mic. " hmmm... I just answered this same question: just point the non-connector end at the desired sound source, and/or the connector end toward the non-desired sound source... pretty basic, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjh Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 My 816 lives 99% of it's life in a case in the van but for those special occasions it works like nothing else, to answer the question above a little better regarding the interference tube only having openings down one side, in normal use I don't think it makes much difference which way round it is but if I've got it in a rycote on a very windy day I always make sure the solid side is facing the wind as it seems to help with it's wind noise rejection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Moore Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 I love my 815 its a super mic for me here in NYC, and it cuts through the noise like nobody's business. I recently revamped my Rycote suspension with a new mounting bar and lyres. I drilled out the old bracket and spacer to make everything fit just right. I later added 2 more lyres for extra stability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniebeaudry Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 I used an 816 years ago in Hawaii for the children's science series Newton's Apple. Boomed the two talent way off of Wikiki Beach waiting for a wave on their surfboards. Got great dialog from twenty to thirty feet over the water. Just me mixing and booming. I also used one in the studio on a Mole Richardson boom and it was very good in that situation too. Could get amazing wide shot coverage with the right placement. I eventually replaced that one with the better sounding Neuman KMR82 for what its worth. Never did use the Neuman outdoors although it should work great with the appropriate wind protection. Never use the 816 in bad acoustics, the long interference tube design will make an echoey room sound even worse. I use a CMIT5U now and its a much better sounding mic, but I could see having an 816 around for an extreme wide outdoors or in an acoustically treated sound stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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