Post production for hidden lavs.

[Rasmus Wedin]

I know this is mostly a forum for audio recording, but I was really interested in what techniques were mostly used for sweetening the audio of hidden lavs in post.

I'm talking mainly about the type of shows where you can't ADR it. Where even if it sounds bad you just gotta make it sound as good as you can get it. I've noticed some shows using a gate, basicly cutting the sound in between the words and filling that up with room ambience to get rid of as much cloth noise as possible.

In "Extreme home make over" it seems to me they use a low-pass filter to get rid of the clothing rustle when people hugg. Cause I can berly hear any rustle just a very muffled sound. Is that right or are those lavs just very well placed?

If anyone has some experience in this matter, I'd relly like to hear about it.

[Philip Perkins]

The general answer, for me anyway, is whatever works. Hidden lav tracks often need some EQ to make them work in a mix even if the tracks don't have a lot of clothing noise. For clothes noise often the first thing to do is get rid of whatever you don't need on that track--manually ditch parts of tracks where the person wearing that mic isn't speaking. Hopefully you have a separate track of a boom or another lav you can fill with, otherwise you'll have to try to find some roomtone or BG to make it all work. For speech that also has clothes noise in it you can try various tools like Izotope and Renovator to get rid of short-event noises. Long rustles are harder, sometimes you can chip away at it with other NR tools, and sometimes you have to mask it with other sounds. As you may have guessed this work can become very labor-intensive.

phil p

[Michael Capulli]

I'm gonna say that on reality shows when people hug - you don't hear much rustle because the voices are too loud during it. Similar reason why clothing noise will disappear in a costume if you go interior to exterior. like a rustle to voice ratio? heh

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[Mark LeBlanc]

Eq if the lav is tucked in deep. My favorite plugin at the moment is the Waves C4 multiband compressor. Properly automated and it works wonders on reducing noise levels. Sometimes you can use Izotope RX to clean things up also..

[Splendid]

Working with EQ mostly, and a lot of chopping bits around. For a hug I would often automate a bass cut to quickly chop out the bass smash, or jump to another track for that moment if available. Grabbing a bit of clean atmos or whatever from another part of the same scene to cover up noises. Copy and paste or the lovely pen tool at sample level for removing pops, clicks and scratches. Usually adding a nice atmos track can bring life into a scene that was only recorded on radio mics and help hide stuff.

[Marc Wielage]

The Waves WNS processor plug-in is a miracle worker. I've used that to save a few projects marred by background noise and other issues. (I call it "The Poor Man's CEDAR.") Volume & EQ automation would take the sting out of it, and you might take it further with de-clicking and de-crackle.

Two people hugging and talking while wearing lavs is a lost cause, in my opinion. I'd ADR the hug with some kind of foley -- even in a reality show -- or hope to god somebody had a boom nearby. I guess if you were lucky, you might be able to splice in a track from another actor standing nearby just for the couple of seconds of background sound and massage the levels and EQ (assuming they were talking during the hug).

I've wondered before on major talk shows (Oprah, etc.) if they lav the host twice: once in the normal position, and again in her hairline or something, just so they have a second source to go through in the likely event of an emotional hug.

--Marc W.

[Olle Sjostrom]

There's something called undercovers from Rycote you can use to soften the rustling a bit. won't make the lav sound less like a lav.

I think those things are kind of expensive.

http://www.rycote.com/products/undercovers/

I haven't tried them myself, I did a test with the IKEA carpet slipping protector though.. just cut out a bit of that and taped in onto the DPA concealer. Worked okay

http://www.ikea.com/se/sv/catalog/products/90132261/ (link in Swedish)

[AudioChambers]

There's something called undercovers from Rycote you can use to soften the rustling a bit. won't make the lav sound less like a lav.

I think those things are kind of expensive.

http://www.rycote.co...ts/undercovers/

I haven't tried them myself, I did a test with the IKEA carpet slipping protector though.. just cut out a bit of that and taped in onto the DPA concealer. Worked okay

http://www.ikea.com/...ducts/90132261/ (link in Swedish)

I used the Rycote Overcovers beneath the clothing (utilizing the furrier version rather than the 'undercovers' version since I usually get rustle still) A lot had to do with mic placement. I seem to rave a lot about the Rycote overcovers, but they have saved me a few times so I feel like I owe it too them haha.

[chris_bollard]

Marc

A boom over the top of a hug is always planned, til we are told the crane is playing too. Sometimes it can be salvaged, sometimes it's best to bring up the music track

[Rasmus Wedin]

Thanks for the answers guys. Seems eq and the "scissors" is the way to go, much as I suspected. Guess there is no magic super tool.

Can´t say Im too impressed with the undercovers, cause they sertenly dont "eliminate" rustle noise, quite the contrary. Havn't tried the overcovers though, they might work better. I much rather use the DPA concealers, they work really well.

[greg sextro]

I didn't even know DPA made concealers... I'll have to check those out. Do you use them with 4061/4063s?

[Mirror]

IMO undercovers make things worse. An unimaginative, lazy man's way to mic. You might as well put sandpaper over the lav. If you're going to use something like that, use the overcovers. At least those keep noisy clothing further from the mic.

[David Lezynski]

Found some material that is SO SIMILAR to undercovers...... Pellon.... I felt it, magnified it, auditioned it, and it sure seems like the RCote undercover material...It worked just fine with Robin Williams recently & he's pretty enthusiastic with his body movement... have found it in white only for the moment..... 6sq ft ... about $2..... at your local fabric store.... OR

http://www.amazon.com/Pellon-Interfacing-Medium-Weight-Fabric/dp/B002AU7N6C

[Rasmus Wedin]

I have the DPA 4060s

[Michael Capulli]

I don't like when I see other sound people prepping mikes with moleskin or under covers for a costume they have yet to see! There is no universal mount that will work with anything. I can usually get away with just transpore or topstick + RM11 - but my favorite is right to the skin with a costume that will work with that.

[studiomprd]

" I don't like when I see other sound people prepping mikes with moleskin or under covers for a costume they have yet to see! "

OK, don't look!

[Rick Reineke]

Found some material that is SO SIMILAR to undercovers...... Pellon.... I felt it, magnified it, auditioned it, and it sure seems like the RCote undercover material...It worked just fine with Robin Williams recently & he's pretty enthusiastic with his body movement... have found it in white only for the moment..... 6sq ft ... about $2..... at your local fabric store.... OR

http://www.amazon.co...c/dp/B002AU7N6C

Yeah, but it ain't cut in those neat little shapes.

PS- Grow eyes in the back of head.. Rycote's got a contract out fo' yo' ass...