Interns sue..

[studiomprd]

The term "intern" is frequently abused.

[Geoff Tirrell]

I never liked the concept of working for free to learn the trade. Which I have always understood to be the premise behind interns. I mean I can understand an apprenticeship where you might be paid just enough to live. I can even understand a traditional 1700s style apprenticeship where papers were signed and you basically belonged to the master craftsman in exchange for room board and labor.

But straight up interning where all you have is a promise that is about as good as one given by a used car salesman. And you are working at their discretion with nothing in return. Plus to add insult to injury most internships I have seen the interns are not actually in any one job long enough to learn it in anything more than the most basic way.

[studiomprd]

" to add insult to injury most internships I have seen... "

...haven't been real internships..??

thus the lawsuit.

[Marc Wielage]

The term "intern" is frequently abused.

I agree. And many times on low-budget projects -- even projects which are professional enough to be actual broadcast or cable shows with real budgets -- I have seen "interns" given far too much to do, including assisting the camera department, the sound department, the grip department, and running errands for the execs. If they were paid a little more than minimum wage, I could buy into it provided they were given an actual opportunity to learn something, worked a reasonable number of hours, and not abused.

[RPSharman]

In California, on "real" projects, PAs are not paid much above minimum wage, are guaranteed 12 hours of pay which gives them 4 hours of OT, are guaranteed by law double time after 12, and eat for free. For a young person learning the business, it's a good job.

If you are being paid at all, as an employee, it's against the law to be on a "flat". There must be a wage, and overtime must be paid.

I hope these "interns" get what they deserve, and I hope it feeds down into any project which could be described as a business venture. People should be paid for their work. There are labor laws for a reason.

If you don't have money to pay people, you don't have money to make the project. Nobody starts a business and asks their employees to work for free. And if you do have the money (Fox), then shame on you for taking advantage.

[myke2241]

interns or staff, union or non-union projects shouldnt be under staffed to the point of degradation! people need to be paid fairly all around.

[Henchman]

I have just read this thread and the lawsuit.

I have a problem with this lawsuit, simply because they knew going in, there would be no pay.

I have a real problem when people take a gig, are told what the pay, if any, is going to be, and then get pissy and have bad attitudes once they start.

If I don't like what a job pays, I don't take it. If I decide to take it, I treat it as any their job.

They could have quit, once they realized what the gig entailed.

And one of the plaintiffs is 42.

Seriously? 42 and doing an internship?

[Mirror]

Yeah, old people suck!

Maybe he just pulled 20 years in the military and is looking to start another career. Good for him.

[Christian Spaeth]

I don't think they knew that after having graduated, all they would do during their internship at a major movie production is making coffee and buy food.

[LarryF]

[snip]

And one of the plaintiffs is 42.

Seriously? 42 and doing an internship?

Whippersnappers these days just don't have any common sense.

Fogey Fisher

[Jim Feeley]

I have just read this thread and the lawsuit.

I have a problem with this lawsuit, simply because they knew going in, there would be no pay.

Fox and the production company knew (or at least had a responsibility to know) going in that they were probably violating the Fair Labor Standards Act. The Department of Labor provides pretty clear guidelines and a simple test to see if an intern is actually an employee:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf

[studiomprd]

" running errands for the execs. "

while that is often the case, it should not be... that is work for paid PA's... but as I said the term 'internship' is often abused...

and that is a big part of the reason for the action...

[Henchman]

Nothing against someone trying to do something else.

But at 42 you don't have the common sense to quit aftercthebfirstvday when the " internship" means getting coffee and sweeping floors?

If I was wanting to get more experience in this field, and went for an internship to learn, and all I did the first week was get coffee and answer phones. I'd be having a serious chat with the person who hired me about how the intern program progresses. In fact, before I started I would want to know exactly what is going to be expected from me, and what I expect in return.

Hanging around for months would not be happening if they didn't come through on their promises.

[old school]

"Hanging around for months would not be happening if they didn't come through on their promises. "

I agree. Something seem off about this story.

CrewC

[Henchman]

I was working for a studio when I first came to LA 4 years ago. Mixing lots of stuff for them.

It got to the point where they owed me almost $5k. In back pay, after a month of work. And I'm supposed to get paid every week.

I left and got a job elsewhere. Wheas other people I know continued working for them.

I kept hounding them, and ended up being one of the only guys who got paid before the business shut down, and the owners left town.

Moral of the story. If you're not getting what's been promised. Leave.

Suing people is a colossal waste of time. Even when you win, collecting is a nightmare too.

[John Blankenship]

I'm a strong believer in loyalty -- but I also believe it should be deserved.

I also don't agree that anyone can be in the position these people are in unless they're complicit in the agreement -- which, in turn, means they're not a slave, just a masochist. A slave can't walk away -- they can.

Let's see if I have this correct, they allowed themselves to be "abused" for SEVERAL MONTHS, then they sue the alleged abuser. However, for the situation to sustain that long, they were a party to it -- and since they were a party to it, shouldn't they also be named as defendants in the suit?

Like Crew said, "Something seems off about this story."

[studiomprd]

" If you're not getting what's been promised. Leave. "

and if you are employed, there are labor laws that lay out the rules for getting paid...

of course if you are getting abused you ought to leave...

" I also don't agree that anyone can be in their position unless they're complicit in the agreement "

"Something seems off about this story."

well, of course there are two sides to this dispute.

and I suppose that's part of why it has gone on like it has for so long, and part of why finally someone is not just quitting, but fighting back. oh, and the jobs were not really internships, they were unpaid PA's.

I can only speculate that the "interns" may have been misguided, maybe beinbg told something like: 'this is a little indie profuction with a low budget' and later realized they were misled significantly.

That is one of the things the big studios routinely do. I remember years ago living in Venice and a production needed signatures to be allowed to shoot something in our neighborhood... they came along with a form letter practically calling it a no budget student film independently produced for film festival submission, in reality it was a pretty major production, with huge stars, lots of $$, and the indie company was a major part of Time-Warner... (I recognized this from industry production reports!)...

[RPSharman]

You can't blame the abused for not leaving the abuser.

There are many factors that cause people to hang around in abusive situations. False promises, etc.

I have no problem with this suit, as it will bring attention to the issue, and hopefully stem the practice.

If I recall, the claimants are looking for wages, not punitive damages. Asking for what they are owed, even if it's minimum wage plus overtime and legal fees, seems pretty reasonable to me.

Robert

[Geoff Tirrell]

I'm a strong believer in loyalty -- but I also believe it should be deserved.

I also don't agree that anyone can be in the position these people are in unless they're complicit in the agreement -- which, in turn, means they're not a slave, just a masochist. A slave can't walk away -- they can.

Let's see if I have this correct, they allowed themselves to be "abused" for SEVERAL MONTHS, then they sue the alleged abuser. However, for the situation to sustain that long, they were a party to it -- and since they were a party to it, shouldn't they also be named as defendants in the suit?

Like Crew said, "Something seems off about this story."

Yes and I would tend to agree with you but for 2 things. Many perhaps even most colleges require at least one internship if not more to graduate now. So it is probably a case of them keeping their heads low so that they did not have to face a repeat year because of an internship gone wrong at the cost of 20-60k depending on their institution.

What makes this even worse is if the university has a policy where the internships must be gained through their placement officer. There was a girl who went to grad school with my wife who was being forced to work as a receptionist and had been prevented from taking a real internship in his field because the offer had not originated with this officer. As I recall the argument went something like this "well we have had interns there for years and nobody else has said anything so you must be making it up" and "we can't possibly place you into another program this late so you will just have to continue the other"... for the record the later was a blatant lie as she knew the director at the center and they wanted here there.

While the industry involved with the people I mentioned is different the situation is sadly enough the same as deadbeats are everywhere.

[studiomprd]

" most colleges require at least one internship "

these are real internships, with academic credit; these may be unpaid internships.

" the university has a policy where the internships must be gained through their placement officer. "

colleges do frequently arrange the internships, which tends to guarantee they are real internships

[Henchman]

Sorry RP, but I disagree.

Theres something called personal responsibility.

And this is simply not an abuse case. It's also not a case of someone not being able to leave, because they needed the job.

They weren't getting paid in the first place.

[S Harber]

Internships are unethical and only benefit those well off enough to work for free for an extended period.

Not only does this allow employers to take advantage of this pool of people but it also perpetuates the disparity between those who can afford to work for free and those who really need to make a living.

Internships are for rich kids as far as I can tell.

My 2¢.

Scott Harber CAS

[Henchman]

Depends on the internship.

I've seen internships where you were only expected to come in anywhere from one day to 3 days a week.

Not full time.

I have seen internships that we're minimum wage paying jobs.

But an internship is only an internship if you are learning.

I started in the industry as an intern at The Plant in Sausalito. Required one day a week to come in. But I was here every single free day I had. And interns actually did real stuff. Hooking up machines, Minor maintenance stuff. I had interned at other studios where you mainly worked the front desk. I left those paces pretty quick.

Again, if you are not learning anything at an internship, leave. Don't hang around for months on end.

[studiomprd]

" Internships are unethical "

not real internships.

that's my running point in this thread.

want to see an excellent example of a proper internship program?? Please check the 39 Annual Summer Internships sponsored (and paid for) by the Television Academy Foundation. http://www.emmysfoundation.org/internship-programs

I have participated for many years in selecting the sound intern, who gets a real training opportunity at a major Hollywood post-production facility, often also getting to spend a day or two on production sound.

I was especially surprised when I went to my first annual reception for the interns, (and their hosts and mentors) there are hundreds of former Academy Foundation Interns in major positions all over our industry.

None of these internships either save a host from hiring real staff, nor are they coffee makers or runners.And interns actually do real stuff All Intern candidates must be enrolled students, and they usually receive appropriate credit from their schools.

[John Blankenship]

But, Mike, don't you understand... Your point makes it very difficult for those who wish to paint everything with a single brush.