Jeff Wexler Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Believe it or not, the movie I am starting next week has gone back and forth on film vs. digital, and they will not make a decision until sometime next week. So, my question to all those who have worked with Alexa, I need to confirm a few things. From what I have learned so far, I should be at 48K sample rate and 23.98 tc, jam the Alexa from the main tc source (my Deva) and shoot tc slates. I imagine that I could jam a sync box (Denecke, Ambient, etc.) and put that on the camera. There is no plan to put any sound on the camera. Let me know if I have this all in the ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I'd still ask post ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I'd still ask post ... Oh, thank you so much... I would never have thought of that without all your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Wang Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 throw one ERX1TCD on the camera solve all problems, i use it all the time with alexa , only problem is : when they do high-speed then back to normal speed,it may disabled sound recording function on the camera automaticly,change it back to enable then you fine. Then you don't need to feed the video village anything,SDI output carries audio signal as well. And alexa is much more friendly with ERX compare the red on timecode jamming, so far no prob to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Jeff, The film I'm on right now just went from Film to Alexa at the last minute. They are actually shooting 24fps - for a digital cinema package. We discussed the workflow - and I'm actually running 24 fps on my fusion, and I put a Deneke SB-3 running 24 fps on the camera - also slate at 24fps. My advice, is talk with the post people. greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 There's no real reason to put a syncbox on the camera, Jeff. It should hold a jam for the 6 hours to lunch and will hold a jam for 10 minutes without a battery. At least that's been my experience with the more recent Alexa firmware builds. We had a rare occurrence the other day, shooting a fast turnaround commercial with the Alexa, though. We were recording to the camera due to the post timeline with a backup at my end. Very steamy morning after heavy thunderstorms just after call time, so the tropical mode imager heater was on and a rain cover was on the camera occasionally when the wind picked up and blew water out of the tree cover.. After a while the camera dropped sound and a reset was required to restore it. Interestingly, the timecode jam appeared to hold through the reset although we rejammed it just to be safe. The camera does run at rates other than the HD video rate for what it's worth, as Greg has pointed out. Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) Sorry Jeff.... I know I'm considered the smart-ass here, but I remember when I'd get a call for a 2nd unit, or whatever, and all I'd ask is "Time Code?", and that was that. and that was then, not now! Even then, I could still use my TC Nagra's for non-TC work (I kept only one non-TC Nagra, as a TC Nagra could back up a non-TC Nagra, but not vice-versa!). Sure, if your movie shoots at 23.976 (aka 23.98),you probably can't be wrong rolling 23.976 TC, but post may prefer 29.97 -- or at 24.00 if they roll camera at 24.000-- It is also possible for post to have a bit-depth preference I know you are familiar with the old convoluted Sony Workflow, and while not as intuitive, it worked for them. Of course we may be pretty certain but even on huge projects such as you do, even workflow tests are not unheard of. It is also possible for post to have a bit-depth preference. Edited September 30, 2011 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 You don't need a sync box w one camera, but your DIT may want them when using multiple cameras. He/She may also want the sound files on compact flash instead of DVD RAM when importing your files to his drives. As for long term storage of your recordings, DVD RAM may be the way to go. All n all it is a good camera for sound dept. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Jeff, The Alexa has an Ambient lockit box built in, so is as accurate as anything else. The show I just finished was Alexa. It was TV, so 23.98 and 24-bit 48K. In prep, I had the camera house make 1/4" to lemo jam cables, and told production and ACs that they could jam the camera from my slates "as required". It put the responsibility where it belongs, and the ACs were perfectly happy to accommodate. I never got a single call about sync for 3 months. There's really no reason to run sound to camera on a "real" project. My view is, treat it like film. But this, you know, is just how I like to do things. Others may differ. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 What about power downs? Is there is an internal battery that keeps the TC generator going (for how long)? And what about going back and forth from off-speeds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Talking first about video, there was a time when most post was done at 29.97, so even if the camera ran at 23.976, 29.97 was preferable since that's what the timeline was normally set to. However, as NLEs have grown up, and they now handle most all of the rates well, in my experience, post is now usually done at the same rate the camera shot at (at least in my neck of the woods). So, the easy answer -- and you probably can't go wrong -- is to run everything at the same rate as the camera. I consider that the "new norm." If they're doing a filmout, as others have mentioned, they're likely to be shooting at a full 24fps to make it a frame-for-frame transfer with no speed adjustment, and in that case, they would likely stay 24 frame throughout the post process and only change that when outputting for video uses -- just like with film. I haven't worked with the Alexa as much as some here, but one of my observations is that it's much easier to work with than, for example, a Red, if for no other reason than the doting throng surrounding the camera seem to be in a much better mood. They're having less hassles, so, by extension, others have less hassles and more cooperation. So, as I'm sure you've gleaned from all the great posts here (we'll rule out the pedantic ones), for a feature, it's pretty much just like shooting with a film camera except that you'll probably deliver files to a DIT for inclusion with the video files on a hard drive. Be ready for the possibility that they may suddenly decide to also record sound on the camera to make dailies easier. The Alexa uses a special 5-pin XLR to bring both channels in. The rental house will probably include one with the package. I'm looking forward to hearing your report back on how it went if they decide to use the Alexa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 What about power downs? Is there is an internal battery that keeps the TC generator going (for how long)? And what about going back and forth from off-speeds? Yes, Greg. It holds for 10 minutes, long enough to do a battery swap under all but the most extreme circumstances.. The jam holds as long as the Ambient clock is good for if the camera stays powered. You might be confused going by the dumb side display on the camera. It shows 'code delayed by something like 4 seconds. But the DIT on our spot the other day was doing some checking, looking over my shoulder at the display on my recorder and the 'code embedded in the SDI stream he was looking at on his monitor/scope was a match for mine by the second at least to his eye. Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I've done three features on the alexa this year, and I noticed if you are using an ambient lockit box either on the camera or to jam, you won't be able to use the 5 pin to 5 pin cables, you have to use the bnc to 5 pin cable. This is because the camera won't accept the jam if ascii (pin 5) and smpte are both present. You could potentially make a 5 pin to 5 pin lemo cable and leave pin 5 disconnected, although I haven't tested this, it should work just fine. From what I've read, this is because the alexa automatically assumes it is the master if it sees an ascii connection, even when jam sync is turned on. I'm guessing this isn't an issue with smpte because in and out are on seperate pins, but both direction ascii is on one pin. I jammed camera twice a day and after prolonged power downs, and had no need for a sync box, except as an easy way to get tc to camera to jam, with no sync complaints from post. The audio input is line level only, but has a good amount of gain adjustment, something like 20db in each direction. The camera houses up here (seattle) have not been supplying the 5 pin audio input cable, so it would be worth asking camera to request one in case production decides the want in camera audio. I made myself custom input cables for my wireless camera hop (senn. G3), so I never needed them. I'm not sure if arri has updated it yet, but the firmware versions in the cameras I've been working with up here don't support audio on playback. All in all I've found it to be an extremely friendly camera to work with. Fwiw, that's been my experience. Kelsey http://wanderingear.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I am shooting with the Alexa right now. 23.976, 48K. Jammed using standard sync boxes in the morning and at lunch. Excellent quiet camera. Plus, we are handing in flash drives of our sound so there are no expendables and a completly digital workflow. The Alexa I boldly predict is going to be the camera that will replace film. There is a 4K version coming out soon I've heard. And BTW Jeff your site is still my homepage! Outstanding website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom williams Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Hi Jeff, I'm working on RIPD now in Boston and we are shooting with multiple Alexas. I am at 23.98 tc and 48Khz and all is working well. We just jam the camera twice a day, no sync boxes or audio to camera. Best, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Armed with the knowledge that the Alexa TC resets altogether if it's off at all, you and the ACs ought to be in good shape. The clock will lose a couple of frames max in 12 hours. So if it's close in the display, it's right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I guess I don't see why one shouldn't just put a sync box on it and leave it... Say it does get powered off for longer than 10 minutes - there's no need to worry about a re-jam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Each project has it's own set of demands. I've done two shows with the Alexa 23.98, 48K. I have jammed multiple cameras with a cable adapter from my Denecke Slate. "Community" does it that way too. Other shows "Luck", "Bones" want to use "lockit" boxes on the cameras. Either way will work just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Another note of caution is that unless connected to external TC, the cam will need to be rejammed after each and any off-speed shot. At least as of the last Alexa software version I've worked with, TC resets to 00:00:00.00 after any frame-rate change. But yeah, I've always run at 23.98, 48Khz with this camera. And as mentioned earlier, It's SOOO quiet! I'm always happy to hear when we'll be shooting on Alexa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 The Alexa on my shoot makes a notable "whine." though I'm also dealing with quiet actors and small locations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcopenhagen Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Our upcoming production also just jumped from film to Alexa with Day 1 a week away. Latest word is that post wants 24fps, 48.048 kHz. We'll be downplaying the idea of audio to camera ( for the extra gear and hassle). We'll jam from the Ambient slates via one-way LEMO 5-pin cables: 2x a day, after long power-downs, and speed-changes. I like Robert's idea to put the "irregular" jams into the hands of the cam dept, as they will know best regarding speed changes and power downs. Doesn't make sense for sound to have to baby-sit the cam. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Had a noisy alexa on a shoot. It can display the rpm of the fan. It's self regulating and operates between 1000-1400 normally(according to an AC). The one with an issue we started out quiet but when it was getting loud the fan was about 3200rpm. The rental house sent a tech who cleaned the camera out. Took about 20 minutes to open it, blow the gunk out and rebuild it. Worked fine afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 If they're doing a filmout, as others have mentioned, they're likely to be shooting at a full 24fps to make it a frame-for-frame transfer with no speed adjustment, and in that case, they would likely stay 24 frame throughout the post process and only change that when outputting for video uses -- just like with film. Small correction: many, many productions shooting for theatrical film release are doing 23.976fps and then doing a .1% pull-up for film-out. Everybody's used to it -- it's not a problem as long as picture post, sound post, and the various post facilities are aware of what's going on. There are no artifacts or problems whatsoever, and it costs nothing to do. Either 24.00fps or 23.976fps can work just fine, as long as everybody's on the same page for sync. The dailies are traditionally still done at 23.976 because that's what most Avids and FCP systems are set up for. But (as some people say) "it depends." To Jeff: I would definitely get a memo in writing from the post supervisor absolutely specifying 24.00fps and 24-frame timecode. CYA mode. The Alexa is generally a great camera and can hold timecode sync all day long; I've jammed them twice a day just out of force of habit, but I bet they could go longer than 6 hours without a jam. Beautiful camera. I think Arri is now under tremendous pressure to come up with a 4K version of the Alexa because of the new Sony F65 coming out in January (which will be about the same price, $65,000). I don't know if Arri will upgrade the old cameras or even if it's possible. BTW, speaking of Arri in LA: an exec with the local office just pled guilty to hacking into emails at Band Pro (a large rental house that has a lot of Red cameras) -- details at this link: http://www.electroni...to.e.mail.hack/ As a result, Red is now suing Arri claiming unfair competition and many other serious charges. It's fair to say there's a big war going on between Arri and Red at the moment. Quite a scandal for the rental biz. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Small correction: many, many productions shooting for theatrical film release are doing 23.976fps and then doing a .1% pull-up for film-out. Everybody's used to it -- it's not a problem as long as picture post, sound post, and the various post facilities are aware of what's going on. There are no artifacts or problems whatsoever, and it costs nothing to do. Either 24.00fps or 23.976fps can work just fine, as long as everybody's on the same page for sync. The dailies are traditionally still done at 23.976 because that's what most Avids and FCP systems are set up for. But (as some people say) "it depends."... Thanks, Marc, for the correction. I'd hate to disseminate inaccurate information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Recently did a movie with 2 x Alexas We jammed them from the 2 x TS-3 slates Fed guide mix by radio Fan noise on one day (ambient was 33 degrees) Faultless mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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