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4 channel on camera recording.


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I hate the fact that producers look on us like we're grumpy old guys wanting only the finest gear and the most expensive mics. We need our shit to work, just as much as the cameras.

I know what you mean. Somehow they don't seam to understand that the extra/better gear we ask for is to make THEIR show sound better. They understand that "the more expensive camera" is gonna take prettier pictures, but fail to understand that "the more expensive sound kit" is gonna give them better audio. How hard can it be?

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I'm with Phil,

I never plan to send more than 2 channels to a camera. I think using a video camera as a multitrack recorder is a ridiculous idea. I understand some of you may get these requests and need to keep clients happy. But I will always go for a lockit box/slate and they can have bwf's from me at the end of the day with matching TC.

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There are a lot of television networks and production companies that don't think it is a ridiculous idea to record to camera, and they pay the bills. In some situations there is no time to for editors to ingest camera disks and double system sound from multiple crews, do an edit and turn it around for a live show the next morning.

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Of course I dont think its ridiculous to record sound on the camera for doc and reality shows which I do a lot of. I just think that if they want isos then they should accept that the shoot will be double system. Feeding camera 4 channels is a pain in the ass and if the show has a quick turnaround they will only ever look at CH 1 + 2. If they need isos for backup it will take a few minutes to sync up the bwfs.. Anyways, of course what the client wants the client gets, our job is to give them what they want so hats off to you guys who are doing the 4CH sound to camera!

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If they are demanding 4 channels to their camera(s), then do it but build the gear into the rate. If they aren't demanding 4 camera audio channels then 2+ a backup is easier for camera and sound, cheaper for production, and not that big a deal for post. Syncing, even w/o TC can be mostly automated. If you are doing a multiple character many-wired show, then trying to figure out what to iso into only two iso channels on the fly will kind of slow you down. This is why recorders like 788 were invented!

phil p

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If production are asking for 4 channels on camera, then one can only hope they have the ability to extract it from the camera disk or card when ingesting.

If production insist on this method in their work flow and are willing to pay to achieve this, then I see no reason not to help them achieve their goals.

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Dominique,

At present I am away from some of my equipment so it will not be until mid February that I will test for sure.

Here is my plan.

Zaxcom fusion, xd cam, miranda picolink de embedder. (embedder $100 off eBay yet to arrive)

4 channel aes to the camera

Sdi output from xd cam

(might have to be downconverted to sd depending on Miranda de embedder)

4 channel aes out of embedder into fusion

Line up all with tone

Set up meters and headphones to monitor camera.

May need to trawl through xd manual to downconvert hd to sd on sdi output.

Previous test

Zaxcom fusion, Sony ex3, trickster 850 vision mixer.

Basically only 2 channel analogue into ex3, de embed on tricaster, aes into fusion.

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" and turn it around for a live show the next morning. "

well of course, if there is virtually no post-production...this is actually pretty common, but not for "movies".(narrative, storytelling)

" no way i'm giving them ISOs on the camera. "

don't take the gig, if you take the gig, give the client what they want.

" what the hell are we MIXING? "

I call it "tracking"

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The reason production has been asking me for 4 channels on camera is mostly for them to be able to pull unexpected, unwanted noise out of the mix in post. Many shows I do are "no re-take"-shows and I have 2-3 lavs and a boom mixed to a stereotrack on camera. People are always gonna be talking over each other, coughing in their lavs when someone else is talking, rubbing their lavs and so on (you know the drill). Thats stuff thats basiclly impossible to mix on location, but easy to fix in post if everything is separated.

Of caurse I would love to go double system instead, but production is really in the mind set of "we allways get the sound on camera, why should we add another time consuming step in post?" However, I know a few camera guys who work with the 7D + Zoom H4-combo, and there never seames to be a problem syncing their stuff up. Hmm....

I think I more or less have to give up the 552 as a reliable way to get 4 chans to camera. I'm really looking forward to hearing how Marks idea pans out. Haven't got the gear to test it myself, but if that works, it would be awesome.

The only other way I see this working otherwise is to get a 4 chan recorder, like the nomad, and from there send 4 channels to camera digitally, while also recording those 4 channels on the nomad itself as a back up.

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