MovieSlate report from a user

[MovieSlate]

I still cannot find a straight answer as to whether or not I can jam TC from my recorder and have it replace the basic function of my Deneke smart slate.

With MovieSlate's optional $50 Timecode Sync plugin, you can connect a cable from your recorder's LTC output to the iPad/iPhone headphone jack. So long as the iPad/iPhone remains tethered to the recorder with the cable, MovieSlate's timecode will always be synced with the recorder. There's also an option to jam-sync and remove the cable, but this relies upon the iPad/iPhone's built-in clock which can drift from 2 to 8 frames over the course of a day.

I suppose it depends upon how much drift is acceptable for your particular workflow. Many veteran Mixers have told us that frame-accurate timecode is just not very important to them, and that they’re fine just hand entering TC using the keypad. Of course, your needs may be more demanding.

You would probably need a Timecode Buddy sync'ed over wifi, and not just a simple jam.

Yes, that’s a terrific solution which produces frame-accurate results. If you’re at NAB next week, you can see TCBuddy and MovieSlate in action at NAB Booth C2150 (Timecode Systems).

I have not tested the Bluetooth/Wifi route, which should prohibit drift.

The TCBuddy WiFi route is continuous sync; again very accurate. The Bluetooth route is strictly a jam-sync solution (not continuous), and is only for syncing between MovieSlates-- therefore not appropriate for syncing with recorders.

From what I know, there are efforts in improving the TC stability in MovieSlate, but this is in the future, and not a present day feature.

Correct. In the near future, MovieSlate’s Timecode Sync plugin will use Denecke’s LTC encoding/decoding software for sending/receiving LTC timecode via the headphone jack.

[Jeff Wexler]

Thanks, Cliff, for chiming in here. It is also a good thing to have clarification from the source (that being YOU). I love MovieSlate and I appreciate your dedication to our relatively little, but special, part of the industry.

[MovieSlate]

The crystal inside something like an iPad is not going to stay locked up long enough to go without drift. A real timecode slate has to have a crystal-controlled oscillator with very tight performance specs, and that's one of the things you pay for with a true Denecke or Ambient timecode slate.

Exactly so, Marc. Again, many workflows simply don't require that kind of accuracy-- particularly if you're using MovieSlate primarily as a shot logging and Sound Report creation tool.

...as Jeff says, the relative vulnerability of a glass iPad compared to a (mostly) wood Denecke slate makes it a bad choice.

Good point. There are third-party slate enclosures out there to help protect the iPad (like MamboFrame, T-Slate, and iClapperboard). But these are not bullet-proof protection from abusive treatment. ;-)

[MovieSlate]

Thanks, Cliff, for chiming in here. It is also a good thing to have clarification from the source (that being YOU). I love MovieSlate and I appreciate your dedication to our relatively little, but special, part of the industry.

My pleasure. Just trying to add some clarification (not pitch anything).

[Philip Perkins]

Exactly so, Marc. Again, many workflows simply don't require that kind of accuracy-- particularly if you're using MovieSlate primarily as a shot logging and Sound Report creation tool.

Good point. There are third-party slate enclosures out there to help protect the iPad (like MamboFrame, T-Slate, and iClapperboard). But these are not bullet-proof protection from abusive treatment. ;-)

Which workflows don't need frame accurate TC?

I know of workflows that don't use TC at all, but if they do have TC the TC is generally expected to be accurate, in my experience.

phil p

[Richard Lightstone, CAS]

Phil,

I think Cliff was referring to using MovieSlate for the creation of Sound Reports only.

[Marc Wielage]

I agree, the Sound Report timecode can be within a second or so -- no need for frame-accuracy there. My concern is only with people who try to use MovieSlate as an actual slate.

It would work fine with Timecode Buddy or some other reliable wireless receiver, assuming you protected the iPad's glass surface and were indoors.

[Guest Brandty]

I think that's right!

[Doug Beatty]

Obviously not for everyone- but Nomad owners could velcro an ERX1TCD to a slate enclosure to be frame accurate all day long. Or better yet, could Movie Slate possibly play nice with Zaxnet?

[OmahaAudio]

I have an IPod Touch with Movie Slate and it works just fine as a bloop slate. What I'd like to be able to do (when my 702T gets here) is to find a way to get an inexpensive-as-possible wireless connection between the 702T and Movie Slate that would let me use the iPod Touch as a small slate (small kit run-and-gun). Research suggests that it would be possible with wires but wireless? The TimeCode buddy transceiver would work but not-for-me at $900+. If TCB comes out with a smaller, cheaper transmitter that would work but I think I'll have to wait a while for that.

[Dear Mike, Don't even bother with your stock reply of "you get what you pay for". That's as inane as saying, "It's always in the last place you look."]

[soundslikejustin]

You could use a sennheiser G2 or G3 wireless kit. You just need to make sure you're inputting into the line input of the transmitter. Blue Cow Cables (as well as I'm sure most audio houses) can make up cables for this purpose.

[OmahaAudio]

You could use a sennheiser G2 or G3 wireless kit. You just need to make sure you're inputting into the line input of the transmitter. Blue Cow Cables (as well as I'm sure most audio houses) can make up cables for this purpose.

Interesting. I'll try that. Thanks.

[tonetripper]

I've been using movie slate for some time now and it turns out that post loves it. Sound report app mostly.

The latest update has somewhat fixed the drift to some degree. So that is reassuring.

I originally bought the movie slate app to deal with shooting with the 5D. This was before pluralize. Recently I upgraded to the sound report add on and it's been functioning quite well.

The jam cable I have has an amplifier on it so that I could set the input of tc to my iPad or iPhone properly. It was custom built.

I've been flashing numbers to over zealous camera man grabbing their 5ds whenever sound moments happen for some time. I always kept my iPhone jammed in my bag off the 744 and then buzz it out with the fast acting sound moment w The 5d working. Worked well! This year after reading reviews I bought the sound report app because the paper thing is just so archaic and it's nice to be able to adjust and resend when needed to. Or have ur notes on whatever device in email in case post calls u on a day off to discuss this that or the other thing. That's my favorite part is the cross integration.

One glitchy thing that has happened in the latest build is that the track selection in the history section keeps resetting itself after i make changes; at random. It didn't do it before the latest build so that is annoying. Another thing that happens lately and once again it might be the build is that it's tc in the main sound report is freezing. I'm wondering if it's getting confused w CL-WIFI which I'm using w the 788. It's all just reference I've found work arounds but that is bothersome.

This is where I'll chime in about features.

I'd love to lose the cable concept. I would love to have my CL-WIFI as my source of sync for the movie slate as I would also love to have my zaxcom IFB portion of my QRX have the same functionality for those ( albeit kinda dumb ) rec run days. Now I know this renders the tc buddy useless but I think the business model would work better as people w varying products prolly won't buy into the tc buddy system but may buy an in app option to have that functionality. I would for sure and wouldn't be against paying a reasonable dollar for it.

Another cool thing would to have some kind bace station wifi hub whereby script, camera and sound could access take data from other machines to cross reference and maybe a text functionality within it for information to move freely on set without having the asides and then the hairy eyeball from director or producers for interfering with artistic indecision on set ( that usually happens w series work - heh ). This of course would have a password for the group so as to keep the network private.

Movie slate is smart, efficient and well, cool IMHO. Just need to not get too proprietary and I think business would do better.

Needs to refine a bit more but so far it's been a very excellent tool to maintain the train of information. After all, we are in the information business and business goes a whole lot smoother when the information train runs on smooth tracks.

Paul

[MatthewFreedAudio]

I keep hoping the Movie Slate folks would make a version for Android. But, evidently they have no plans for that. Too bad.

[MovieSlate]

I've been using movie slate for some time now and it turns out that post loves it. Sound report app mostly. Movie slate is smart, efficient and well, cool IMHO. Just need to not get too proprietary and I think business would do better.

Thanks for your kind words, Paul.

The latest update has somewhat fixed the drift to some degree. So that is reassuring.

Later this summer, you’ll see more improvements in that area. We’ve partnered with Denecke to build a new LTC sync engine for MovieSlate.

One glitchy thing that has happened in the latest build is that the track selection in the history section keeps resetting itself after i make changes; at random.

I wonder if it seems that way due to a new feature we introduced in the latest version: when you switch Projects, MovieSlate loads all data from that Project’s most recent saved shot.

I'd love to lose the cable concept. I would love to have my CL-WIFI as my source of sync for the movie slate

This is on our TODO list.

Another cool thing would to have some kind bace station wifi hub whereby script, camera and sound could access take data from other machines to cross reference and maybe a text functionality within it for information to move freely on set

Yes, that’s what we’re working towards.

[geordi]

I've been flashing numbers to over zealous camera man grabbing their 5ds whenever sound moments happen for some time. I always kept my iPhone jammed in my bag off the 744 and then buzz it out with the fast acting sound moment w The 5d working.

Sorry... What exactly are you trying to say here?

I haven't had enough caffeine yet obviously, that made very little sense to me.

[MovieSlate]

I keep hoping the Movie Slate folks would make a version for Android. But, evidently they have no plans for that.

We're always evaluating new platforms, especially Android, but at this time we don't have any announcements regarding MovieSlate being available on platforms other than iOS.

It can be a challenge recouping an app's development investment, so we need to carefully consider a platform's market share. Although MovieSlate started life as an iPhone app, it is really well suited for use on a tablet-- which explains why a very large percentage of folks run MovieSlate on a tablet rather than a phone (that and the fact that hardware slates are about the size of a tablet). So while Android may be running on more cell phone handsets than iOS these days, most tablets are running iOS.

[Wandering Ear]

We're always evaluating new platforms, especially Android, but at this time we don't have any announcements regarding MovieSlate being available on platforms other than iOS.

It can be a challenge recouping an app's development investment, so we need to carefully consider a platform's market share. Although MovieSlate started life as an iPhone app, it is really well suited for use on a tablet-- which explains why a very large percentage of folks run MovieSlate on a tablet rather than a phone (that and the fact that hardware slates are about the size of a tablet). So while Android may be running on more cell phone handsets than iOS these days, most tablets are running iOS.

+1 for android. I just bought an android tablet to compliment my android phone, and I plan on using my tablet on my cart extensively. I'd love to make my cart fully paperless if possible.

[JCC]

I just bought this app, loaded (w/in app purchase) on iphone and ipad. Have ordered a tc buddy. Looking forward to working with it.

I also have the ambient app, which has worked great, but it's not a clapping slate, and I can't pair it with a wifi option (tc buddy) - tho the ambient app does read tc out of my 788 PLUS it reads frame rate in real time (and fps changes when source fps changes).

Since I've been testing it, I have a couple questions:

1. I can sync ipad to iphone using blue tooth, but not wifi (though I have a good wifi connection) - any thoughts about what I might be doing wrong?

2. When I test my headphone jack, it shows 73% (not the recmnd'd 80%) - do I have to get my cables re-attenuated (the jack seems to sync the TC ok)?

Also, could this (poor testing/weakish signal) be a reason it doesn't read my fps accurately out of my 788T?

Or is it as the "check frame rate" dialogue box indicates, that the app doesn't read that accurately, and it'll always require manual confirmation?

Thanks.

John

[MovieSlate]

I just bought this app, loaded (w/in app purchase) on iphone and ipad. Have ordered a tc buddy. Looking forward to working with it.

Thanks! I think you'll really enjoy the TCBuddy/MovieSlate setup. It works quite well.

I can sync ipad to iphone using blue tooth, but not wifi (though I have a good wifi connection) - any thoughts about what I might be doing wrong?

This may require a back-and-forth conversation to resolve. Please send us a message from our website’s Contact Us form, and we'll get you going again.

When I test my headphone jack, it shows 73% (not the recmnd'd 80%) - do I have to get my cables re-attenuated (the jack seems to sync the TC ok)? Also, could this (poor testing/weakish signal) be a reason it doesn't read my fps accurately out of my 788T? Or is it as the "check frame rate" dialogue box indicates, that the app doesn't read that accurately, and it'll always require manual confirmation?

MovieSlate currently uses an LTC engine called TCode, which is very finicky about attenuation, and has trouble discerning certain frame rates. So, yes you may need to experiment with cables that use slightly different attenuation.

We’ve been collaborating with Denecke, developing a new LTC engine, which will replace the TCode engine later this summer (a free upgrade to the Timecode Sync plugin). The Denecke engine works at much lower line levels, and is therefore not so finicky about attenuation. The Denecke engine also provides much greater accuracy of timecode (less than a frame delta); and super accurate frame rates (so we can retire the "check frame rates" warnings).

[Trat]

Using a 788t, can't I just send timecode via an old M-72 and velcro a pr-72 to the back of the iclapperboard.com? Just need to get a custom cable from comtek to apple headphone jack?

[soundperson]

Question, forgive my ignorance but , if the set was in the wilderness and there is no wifi, how will the TC buddy work?

I and the post house just love my clean sound report from Movie Slate

[Jim Feeley]

The Timecode Buddy wifi master unit sets up the wifi signal and connectivity, works as a DHCP server, etc. Check out the company's site that includes lots of detailed info:

http://www.timecodebuddy.com

[RandyHall]

Yes, the TC Buddy does what's called "ad-hoc wifi", which is a point-to-point wireless network. The upside is that since it's PTP it doesn't suffer some of the latency that you get going over a more traditional "infrastructure" wireless network (sometimes as much as 30ms). The bad news is that it's more, shall we say, flaky, due to the fact that the nature of the ad-hoc network is that nodes can come and go, and line of sight becomes a factor (as it is 2.4GHz spectrum being used).

[geordi]

If the TCB is running a DHCP server, then it shouldn't be "ad-hoc" wireless... although I will admit that I haven't looked that deep into the TCB system yet. My preference would be powering a normal router from a cart and linking everything to that, you shouldn't be having latency issues unless the router itself is having issues. The advantage with a router is that you can configure the output power for better range (with a custom firmware like DD-WRT) and shut down all the non-needed options for better performance with what you DO need.