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Just a thought on the timecode "autorolling" the MovieSlate. I have my Deva set to disc out TC in order to autoroll a 702T. Sound Devices gives an option to adjust how much TC it needs to see before rolling. I think mine is set to 1/2 second or something. This helped it to not record everytime I looked back to change metadata on the Deva. It used to roll everytime I went back a couple of segments to check or change metadata. The Deva TC out bumps to the segments "frozen" first frame of TC each time you look back at segments...

It was great when Sound Devices added the TC start delay to avoid false rolls due to quick TC jumps that are not from rolling. I still have to remember to turn off the autoroll feature when outputting TC to jam the slates to avoid a bogus recorded file.

Just a thought as you ponder the "auto roll" or "auto log" feature...

scott

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Tried this with a friend's Deva and iPad running MovieSlate (I don't have a Zax recorder) and as much as we tried, we couldn't get it to do Disk output timecode and still have consistent control over Zaxnet devices (roll-stop-gain changes on TRX's). We also couldn't get it to do wireless replay with disk output TC, but that may have just been us missing something.

You probably already know this, but the Deva/Fusion stops transmitting on Zaxnet when the TC screen is displayed. Once this page is closed communications over Zaxnet resume... Not sure if this was giving you issues?

I own a Fusion but no zaxnet gear to test. I'm purchasing the proper tc cable so I can check out the "auto roll" feature next...

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You probably already know this, but the Deva/Fusion stops transmitting on Zaxnet when the TC screen is displayed. Once this page is closed communications over Zaxnet resume... Not sure if this was giving you issues?

I own a Fusion but no zaxnet gear to test. I'm purchasing the proper tc cable so I can check out the "auto roll" feature next...

Adding to the above, if you are running Zaxnet (Zaxnet is turned on) you must never try to jam timecode in another device without being in the Timecode setup screen. If you try and jam code while in the Home screen (or any other) it will not work. Zaxnet uses the data stream that produces the timecode stamp for the transmission of all the other control data that Zaxnet uses to do its magic.

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Thanks Jeff and Brandon. Jeff, when using Zaxnet (which I assume you do), do you have your recorder set to Gen TC output or Disk TC output. Would you (or anyone else) mind doing a test?

Our issue specifically was that to auto increment takes based on incoming timecode, MovieSlate needed to be receiving Disk TC (so code transmission started and stopped with the record-stop buttons). However, while in Disk TC we found that this would mean that the connected QRX w/IFB wouldn't send remote control info to the TRX's. I know we weren't on the TC page while doing gain or start-stop changes... Perhaps we had something else setup wrong?

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Thanks Jeff and Brandon. Jeff, when using Zaxnet (which I assume you do), do you have your recorder set to Gen TC output or Disk TC output. Would you (or anyone else) mind doing a test?

I will try and do as test later and let you know. I think that possibly for Zaxnet to work at all, the IFB input (whether it is to the IFB 100 or the IFB board in a QRX receiver) it needs to see continuous running code all the time (which would mean it has to be set to Generator TC OUT). I am not at al sure about this since I have always had my Deva set to GEN out.

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I will try and do as test later and let you know. I think that possibly for Zaxnet to work at all, the IFB input (whether it is to the IFB 100 or the IFB board in a QRX receiver) it needs to see continuous running code all the time (which would mean it has to be set to Generator TC OUT). I am not at al sure about this since I have always had my Deva set to GEN out.

Thanks very much Jeff. I'm suspecting it has to see continuous TC too... Just means I'd have to hit roll in two places instead of one - the recorder and in MovieSlate (gasp! how horrible.)

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Thanks very much Jeff. I'm suspecting it has to see continuous TC too... Just means I'd have to hit roll in two places instead of one - the recorder and in MovieSlate (gasp! how horrible.)

I am still not actively using MovieSlate for that reason (and because I don't have a job to use it on --- but that's another story) but Richard Lightstone is using it all the time and he described the sequence of events: when they say roll sound he hits MovieSlate, then his Deva and then his backup recorder (3 "pushes") --- well, for me, this seems to be a few too many pushes, but actually it would only be 2 because I don't run a 2nd recorder. Next job I'm sure I will use MovieSlate --- its ease of use, beautiful sound reports, very compelling.

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I love movie slate sound report. I do the same as Richard. I make sure I have jammed it with timecode.

Having timecode on a sound report is what I love about it. Plus I find you can put more details into it then a regular paper report. And I can have my company logo on it. Which as you all know is just badass.

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Jeff,

If I got a Roll Logic, it would only be two. But even the three starts you refer to is a lot easier than after rolling, writing down the info on a paper sound log.

Besides "three pushes" makes me think of the Scotch I reward myself with at the end of the day i.e: three fingers of scotch.

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I just would like to add, I am part of the architecture of this app. It started out with the request from a VP of a large studio for a paperless solution to the paper sound report as we know it. They also wanted to build a searchable database for the shows they produce. This is the start of a larger system. The beauty of Pure Blend, they have the vision and technical ability, and writing of the software. To find that in a company is harder than writing the app. The staff has been with Apple from the beginning of the Apple IIe. We all (sound engineers) have a chance to build and develop this app make our jobs easier and better, not to mention, save paper. Be a part of it! Thanks Joe

GO GREEN - Btw; awesome Joe.

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...when they say roll sound he hits MovieSlate, then his Deva and then his backup recorder (3 "pushes") --- well, for me, this seems to be a few too many pushes, but actually it would only be 2 because I don't run a 2nd recorder.

I'm with Jeff -- that's a lotta button pushes. I bet, though, if and when MovieSlate could "sense" external code starting up, then automatically trigger an event (after a second or so), that would be very useful. All you'd have to worry about is checking the scene & take number and adding notes. This could be done with any recorder that can be set to output timecode only during record.

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I'm with Jeff -- that's a lotta button pushes. I bet, though, if and when MovieSlate could "sense" external code starting up, then automatically trigger an event (after a second or so), that would be very useful. All you'd have to worry about is checking the scene & take number and adding notes. This could be done with any recorder that can be set to output timecode only during record.

MovieSlate can do that. But Zaxnet will not work (in my experience) without seeing continuous timecode (Gen Out, not Disk Out), which would make this ^^ not work.

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In regards to many button pushes, I roll a dailies recorder, and master. My flow is dailies recorder, first, then master, which I plan to change to a single CL-1 setup soon, then I hit record on MovieSlate when the sticks clap, which is often minutes later. Then, if editorial wants it, they have a place for a marker clap of TC. Back on tape based cameras, this was very welcomed by post. Now that we are into the card based world, I don't think it matters much anymore. Old habits are hard to break.

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My experiences using Movie Slate with an iPhone 4:

I managed to get Movie Slate to perform automatic roll and stop by setting my Fusion Timecode Out to Disk and and following syncing instructions. This worked well BUT every time it stopped the take and file numbers that I'd set to auto increment did so but always incremented by 2 numbers instead of 1. From my observation - on Stop there seemed to be a momentary burst of timecode output by the Fusion that Movie Slate saw as another take. This perhaps could be level or cable based? Given that the cable I'm using has no attenuation and is the one I built for the Ambient Ap. In Movie Slate I'm getting a solid green 100% when I test the cable.

At this stage my option is to run Movie Slate manually which is fine for my purposes and I've observed the iPhone jammed to my Fusion code holds an approximately 2 - 3 frame offset for about 3 hours (I observed a 7 - 10 frame drift overnight) so for using the Timcode for logging purposes is fine and at the expense of an extra couple of button pushes per take provides a brilliant and well thought out Sound Log. I played with it over the weekend and kept finding new things. I am blown away by the audio note system that means you can send verbal comments, notes and identifications to the editor that automatically includes reference to the file you are commenting on or identifying. Takes me back to pre file based days when you could do your ID and explanatory verbal notes after the recording and the editor will find them ...

A very elegant piece of work, Cliff, keep up the great work, and if you could shed any light for a fix for the double increment problem I mentioned earlier that would be greater still.

Cheers, Malcolm

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At this stage my option is to run Movie Slate manually which is fine for my purposes and I've observed the iPhone jammed to my Fusion code holds an approximately 2 - 3 frame offset for about 3 hours (I observed a 7 - 10 frame drift overnight) so for using the Timcode for logging purposes is fine and at the expense of an extra couple of button pushes per take provides a brilliant and well thought out Sound Log.

I agree. I don't think anybody in post expects or will demand a sound report with the precise start and stop timecode of each file. As long as it's "ballpark-ish" (within a second or two) you'll be OK.

Once in a blue moon, I'll get a call that says, "hey, you missed take #7," and I'll say, "I'm positive I rolled on every take -- it probably just got misnamed, or I just kept on rolling because I didn't hear the director call 'cut.' Check the slate timecode and trust me, it'll be there." That's always worked so far.

On 99% of the sound reports we received for dailies in the last 20 years, we were lucky just to get scene & take names. I don't think timecode is 100% necessary, but I think at least start timecode is nice to have, especially when sound and picture timecode are identical.

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I agree. I don't think anybody in post expects or will demand a sound report with the precise start and stop timecode of each file. As long as it's "ballpark-ish" (within a second or two) you'll be OK.

Once in a blue moon, I'll get a call that says, "hey, you missed take #7," and I'll say, "I'm positive I rolled on every take -- it probably just got misnamed, or I just kept on rolling because I didn't hear the director call 'cut.' Check the slate timecode and trust me, it'll be there." That's always worked so far.

On 99% of the sound reports we received for dailies in the last 20 years, we were lucky just to get scene & take names. I don't think timecode is 100% necessary, but I think at least start timecode is nice to have, especially when sound and picture timecode are identical.

The more info I can put on a sound report, the better I say :)

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Hi Guys,

Congratulations to Cliff for the Tech award nomination from the CAS! Well done Cliff.

I know we have a lot of work to do on the app, but its come a long way. The new features than we have in the pipeline will make our jobs a lot easier and better!

All suggestions are welcome.

Thanks to our users.

Joe

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Sounds intriguing. Any hints?

We really appreciate the interest, Michael. Like Apple, we don't like to publicly comment on unreleased features unless they are already completed, debugged, and ready for release. This helps us avoid disappointing anybody. And Joe is right: the features we have planned are the result of direct feedback from folks in the field, and should help make life easier for everyone.

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  • 1 month later...

All of the features of the MovieSlate app sound great, but I still cannot find a straight answer as to whether or not I can jam TC from my recorder and have it replace the basic function of my Deneke smart slate....

Yes, you can, but it's not a wise idea, due to drift. I have not tested the Bluetooth/Wifi route, which should prohibit drift, but that would be the most accurate, if desired. That being said, I would never use an iPad or iPhone as a slate. Having well proven devices to accurately represent a crucial portion of our job, is gold, saves many potential headaches, and phone calls as to "why is the TC on your "slate" not correct?"

From what I know, there are efforts in improving the TC stability in MovieSlate, but this is in the future, and not a present day feature.

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I agree with Jeff. The crystal inside something like an iPad is not going to stay locked up long enough to go without drift. A real timecode slate has to have a crystal-controlled oscillator with very tight performance specs, and that's one of the things you pay for with a true Denecke or Ambient timecode slate.

I like the idea of using the MovieSlate for notes, but not as a sync-sound slate per se. I can see where people would want to try it in a wireless situation, but as Jeff says, the relative vulnerability of a glass iPad compared to a (mostly) wood Denecke slate makes it a bad choice. Note also that the iPad is very hard to read outdoors in direct sunlight.

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