788t frozen during recording

[mhp]

My 788t locked up during recording. I had to unplug it and take to battery out to shut it down and reboot. Has this happened to anyone else? Any clues why this happened? Thanks

[ShubiSnax]

Why don't you give us more information?

I've never had this happen to me, but there could be a number of factors contributing to this.

Weather conditions, i/o routing, firmware revision, hard drive test?

[Chase Yeremian]

when it locked up did it just emit some kind of tone?

[Mark LeBlanc]

The only time my locked up was involving False Take's. I hit stop, Do false take and it would just sit there.. Was fixed a few Firmware rev's ago

[Jason Yun]

I had my 788T lock up before but it was due to human error. Once was because I was pressing too many keys at the same time (4 to 5 buttons) and the other was because the CF card was not formated before use on my 788T and was too slow.

Pretty silly mistakes.

[fobrake]

My 788T has locked up when doing False Take's also. Now I wait until I get green lights on the Int., CF, and Ext. drive indicators before doing the False Take command. Seems to have solved it.

[johnpaul215]

I had my 788T lock up before but it was due to human error. Once was because I was pressing too many keys at the same time (4 to 5 buttons) and the other was because the CF card was not formated before use on my 788T and was too slow.

Pretty silly mistakes.

This is funny to hear. A buddy used to test in house software at an investment firm. When he started the job, he told me one of the older testers just mashed all the keys on the keyboard as his first test. It's something that is just going to happen one way or another, and it was often a pretty easy way to crash the system.

[studiomprd]

" just mashed all the keys on the keyboard "

I've even been able to do that to MAC's...

[Marc Wielage]

I've told this to some very expensive hardware manufacturers: assume that the user is a complete idiot, even to the extent of hitting all the keys at once, and protect the current session from catastrophe. To me, there should be absolutely no key combination that should cause a crash -- except maybe a control-alt-delete (control-alt-backspace in Linux, otherwise known as the "Vulcan Death Grip").

It's amazing the number of programs out there you can bring down just by hitting the keys too fast. I haven't been able to do this with recent Sound Devices or Zaxcom products -- they generally do a really good job at error trapping.

--Marc W.

[Matt Bacon AMPS]

I'm currently on a shoot and my 788Thas just locked up. We have been filming for around 10 hours pretty continuously. The recorder is running 2.15 firmware. I am recording to the internal SSD and CF card as well as external FireWire 800 drive. I had to remove the external 12v power and the internal battery and reboot. The recorder is on a cart so has plenty of cool air around it so heat shouldn't be the issue. Weird! Annoying!!

[Matt Bacon AMPS]

I've not had the opportunity to review any files. Will they be corrupt?

[studiomprd]

" Will they be corrupt? "

You will have to review to be certain. Recorders recording to Standard OS type file systems with standard FAT's generally close the files periodically as they are being written, so that in case of <CRAP> (which we all know, sometimes happens!) the loss or corruption is very limited.

[WhyOne]

I've not had the opportunity to review any files. Will they be corrupt?

" Will they be corrupt? "

You will have to review to be certain. Recorders recording to Standard OS type file systems with standard FAT's generally close the files periodically as they are being written, so that in case of <CRAP> (which we all know, sometimes happens!) the loss or corruption is very limited.

Group!

This has happened to me twice since v2.15! Complete lock up. De-power, de-battery, reboot all is fine. Both times (Senator is right on, here) files were intact up to the freeze. First time, yup, I was renaming a take while rolling - don't do that anymore... - second time the machine just stopped and froze. Thankfully, I was monitoring the return, so when it all stopped, at least I was aware immediately. Machine is at SD as we speak, trying to duplicate the problem...

Jay

[Matt Bacon AMPS]

That is a little reassuring. Going to review files now wrapped. I would appreciate it if you could keep me updated with what they report back.

[WhyOne]

That is a little reassuring. Going to review files now wrapped. I would appreciate it if you could keep me updated with what they report back.

Will do, Matt. Though there have been very few reports of this issue, it IS an issue, and SD is taking it seriously.

Jay

[Marc Wielage]

First time, yup, I was renaming a take while rolling - don't do that anymore...

Whoa, that's gotta be dangerous. On the 744t, the user interface crosses out most of those functions, so you can't get to them when the machine is recording or playing back. Did they forget to do this on the 788?

Since the SD design uses the scene name and take name as the file name, it's very dangerous to change the scene & take number while rolling. This works fine on the Deva, but you have to be very aware of where you are in the scene & take window.

--Marc W.

[studiomprd]

One of the things we demanded from computer based recorders was their complete attention to recording, thus we, as a group, typically do not use GP computers with any OS for our production recordings; there are a couple of popular exceptions, of course, but generally we are concerned with what might happen to our recordings if the computer was distracted, say by detecting a new device being connected, or checking for email.

Seems to me that "common sense" would restrict our doing anything but recording the sound while in recording mode; -"bookkeeping" data adjustments and corrections can be made in stop mode... That's how I do it.

[Marc Wielage]

I think so many people (me included) have gotten used to multi-tasking, nobody bothers to think about tweaking levels, changing file names, taking a sip of coffee, and texting somebody... all at the same time. I was on a shoot last weekend and, on a 10-person crew, I think I caught six of them texting in the middle of a take. It's annoying, because you'd think everybody would be looking around for potential problems -- lights out of position, a cable somebody's about to trip over, a noisy fan somebody forgot to turn off, etc.

I think with a major redesign, it would be possible for an operating system in a recorder to devote 80% of its processing cycles to recording, but still allow enough to tweak file names, scene names, take numbers, and all that. Probably not enough to, say, turn a channel off in the middle of recording, but anything reasonable, I think it could do.

--Marc W.

[Toy Robot]

I've told this to some very expensive hardware manufacturers: assume that the user is a complete idiot, even to the extent of hitting all the keys at once, and protect the current session from catastrophe. To me, there should be absolutely no key combination that should cause a crash -- except maybe a control-alt-delete (control-alt-backspace in Linux, otherwise known as the "Vulcan Death Grip").

It's amazing the number of programs out there you can bring down just by hitting the keys too fast. I haven't been able to do this with recent Sound Devices or Zaxcom products -- they generally do a really good job at error trapping.

--Marc W.

I am of the opinion that there is no more important task for a digital recorder than to simply work. It must never lock up in the field. Ever.

I understand that these machines are complex. I understand they are using operating systems and the software is designed by teams of engineers and that... yada yada yada.

Don't release it if you aren't sure it will not lock up.

I know I'm inviting a slew of criticism here (the posts usually get ugly when someone states their opinion), and this is my opinion only, not to be confused with fact. But a digital recorder above all else is supposed to RECORD. I am adamant about companies not releasing software until they know it is going to work, and at the same time I understand in order to run a business you have to release things once you think they are ready to go, but Sound Devices lost me as a customer after my month-long 552 firmware issue () and after reading posts like these about multi-thousand dollar professional pieces of equipment locking up in the field.

What am I supposed to do while recording an interview with client XX and my machine locks up... "Sorry guys, give me just one moment while I reboot, check previous file integrity and wipe the sweat off my forehead as I press record for the second time..."

It is my full intent to begin the transition to Zaxcom products (I know someone is going to post an article from somewhere about Zaxcom product XX doing something wrong, but as a mixer, my understanding is that the Nomad hasn't yet failed anyone in the field - see Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:05 PM).

It is simply unacceptable as far as I'm concerned for a digital recorder to lock up in the field while under appropriate power. And I'll say this, for those of you who intend to rebut my opinion: My $300 Zoom H4n (used as a backup stereo recorder) has never once locked up on me in over 500 hours of use. That is to say that it can, and should be done by companies claiming to make professional products.

Ordinarily I try to remain positive and contribute information more than offer opinion, but this is a thorn in my side.

[Jeff Wexler]

"I am of the opinion that there is no more important task for a digital recorder than to simply work. It must never lock up in the field. Ever."

I agree completely, but over time you will realize and understand that there will NEVER be a fully fool proof device, analog, digital, mechanical or software driven, that you will be assured will never fail in some manner. My approach has always been to choose the device or system which has proven itself to be as reliable and trouble free as possible.

"I understand that these machines are complex. I understand they are using operating systems and the software is designed by teams of engineers and that... yada yada yada."

I wouldn't be so cavalier with the "yada yada yada" part --- think of the number of years, decades even, that people have dutifully put up with catastrophic computer failures with their PCs.

"But a digital recorder above all else is supposed to RECORD."

This is why I abandoned Fostex completely, never to return to ANY of their products, when my third brand new factory fresh PD-2 consistently followed the other two, failing to go into RECORD without a re-boot.

"What am I supposed to do while recording an interview with client XX and my machine locks up... 'Sorry guys, give me just one moment while I reboot, check previous file integrity and wipe the sweat off my forehead as I press record for the second time...'"

Well, I don't know what you're supposed to do, but I can tell you what one "client" (Clint Eastwood) wanted to do to me the fourth or fifth time he said "Roll sound" and I had to say "Wait a minute . . . . . . . . . okay, now I think I can start recording"

"It is my full intent to being the transition to Zaxcom products (I know someone is going to post an article from somewhere about Zaxcom product XX doing something wrong, but as a mixer, my understanding is that the Nomad hasn't yet failed anyone in the field"

All of the Zaxcom products I have used have had incredible reliability, unprecedented in my career (and I have used everything at least once) but it would be foolish for me to assume that I will never have a failure. Regarding Nomad, I personally would assume, again, that it will be a very reliable machine based on my past experiences with Zaxcom, but its track record in the field so far is not the best indicator (far too few in use for too short a time at this point). That is not to say one must wait years before making a purchasing decision... our world and our jobs demand very clear thinking and analysis regarding the gear that we use, and a potential choice for Nomad should be presided over by all of these factors.

[Bash]

I think I can safely say that every recorder I have ever used, professionally or otherwise, has messed up, properly, at some time or another. I include in that my Nagra 4L, 4S, 4S TC, Uher, Sony PCM2000, HHB Portadat, Stelladat, Fostex PD2, Fostex PD4, Deva 2, Deva 5, Deva 5.8, SD744T, Aaton Cantar, Fusion, and countless tiny and handheld machines.

I think I have also seen every model of camera that I have ever worked with screw up at some point or another.

Whilst I am not disagreeing with you in any way, I think one has to analyse quite why whatever has happened to the recorder has happened, before making what could be seen as a heavy handed decision!!

Compliments of the season to one and all!!

Simon B

[Bash]

Apologies, I forgot to say - I have not yet managed to get my Nomad to go wobbly and not record!!!!

;-))

sb

[Marc Wielage]

All this stuff is essentially a single-purpose computer, with an internal operating system, designed by humans. It's going to fail occasionally; the key is figuring out how to avoid the catastrophic failures.

I've only had the Deva 5.8 fail twice; in the first case, it just locked up and went stupid. I had to power down, reboot, and when it came back up... all was fine. In the second case, it just failed to talk to the Mix-12. I wound up mixing the show for two days just on the Deva itself, and I limped through just fine. I also had the 744t fail once, but that was after I had connected it via Firewire to a Mac; it just went a little brain-dead. For that, I had to remove the battery, let it sit for a minute, and it booted up just fine. As far as I'm concerned, Sound Devices is actually more reliable than most of the stuff I've dealt with (judging by the 552 and the 744).

I have seen some major, major post-production sessions crash and burn due to computer failure, both for editing and in re-recording sessions. I think this is when you find out how to deal being under the gun. If it only happens once or twice, it's not the end of the world. And I agree with Bash above: these days, the audio department is not the one with gear that crashes these days. Every camera I deal with, regardless of manufacturer, creates far more delays on the set than sound ever does.

--Marc W.

[studiomprd]

" Pioneer RT-909 back from the shop a couple of months ago " + " It must never lock up in the field. Ever. "

it required fixing ?? it failed, maybe ? :'(

+ " It must never lock up in the field. Ever. "

yep... CRAP happens.

I have had NAGRA's stop recording mid take (that would be equivalent, I believe, to a modern recorder locking up, and one I had it jam physically, also the same as a modern recorder "freezing"...

" What am I supposed to do while recording "

have a plan B ... during the DAT era, many of us rolled a second recorder...

" My $300 Zoom H4n (used as a backup stereo recorder) has never once locked up on me in over 500 hours of use. "

insufficient data...error...

lots of them have died, believe me... and they generally are not considered fixable!

[Toy Robot]

The RT-909 just needed new pinch rollers, a minor adjustment or two and a good looking over by a qualified tech. The previous owner let it sit in a garage for 15 or so years without using it so the rollers were shot, but the motors are solid and the heads are near unworn. It's a great machine, and I use it almost every day.

As for the rest; perhaps I'm being harsh on the manufacturers, but I'll continue to expect perfection, even if I don't get it.