Can gunshots damage a lav mic?

[Rasmus Wedin]

Im doing a reality gig tomorrow where we are following a police officer who will be doing target shooting on a shooting range. I'm a bit hesitant to lav this officer since I fear a gun going off 50 cm from the lav might crack its membrane. Am I correct in this or am I just being overly cautious?

Anybody got experience in similar situations? The lavs will be DPA 4060. They are quoted to have "134 dB SPL max". Does that mean before they distort or before they start to take damage?

[geordi]

It means before they distort, and different microphones will behave differently in extreme SPL situations. This will be a very short and sharp transient, not anything like the punishment a mic would receive from high wind or jet engine noise. It should be OK, but you actually might want to use a cheaper mic anyway.

Here's why I say that: A few years ago I was mixing a stage show where the actors were firing large weapons. This was an outdoor theatre, so they were (for effect) using big loads too - LOUD. I had the stage miked with boundary mics like the Crown PCC-160, an AKG unit (don't know the number) and a couple cheap Nady hockey pucks. The Crown and the AKG both rang like a bell every time the shotgun went off within 6 feet of them, ruining the effect with the high pitched chime. They were fine, but that was their distortion mode apparently. I moved them around and put the Nady in place, which (IIRC) had a lower SPL rating. All I got from that was the dull crack of the shotgun blast, exactly as it sounded live. This was even with the gun directly over the mic, about 5 feet away.

[Alex Mitchell]

You'll be fine. I have had lavs on actors before with gunshots and things turned out alright. I even boomed a gunshot once from not too far away (from behind the blast radius, mind) and that went okay too.

If you look at some of the videos they did on the sound for "Inception," you see them taping lavs to the barrels of guns to get a certain kind of sound. It was pretty neat. I believe that these mics are a little more durable than we think.

[David Waelder]

I've generally not had any difficulty with lavs on actors firing weapons. Still, I would hesitate using a particularly expensive mike in that situation.

In the course of my career, I've blown two microphone diaphragms with gunfire- once with a Sennheiser MKH 416 and once with a Neumann KMR-81. An expensive fix both times. The Neumann was particularly painful as the company had a policy (since changed, I believe) of replacing the active capsule as a matched set with the interference tube. That repair came to more than $800.

Both of these occasions occurred with fully automatic fire; I've not had any difficulty with single shots.

In any event, gunshots can blow a microphone so it's best not to tempt fate too much. It's the reason that I keep an Oktava mike in my kit. But the likelihood of a problem is small so I think you'd be OK to go with one of the older lavs in your kit or something replaceable for, say, $200.

David

[RPSharman]

I have mixed a couple of movies with LOTS of gunfire. The actors often wore COS-11s or MKE2s with no damage to either.

Not to say it can't happen, but I'm talking about a serious bombardment from a variety of very loud weapons.

Robert

[Tom Visser]

4060's are going to distort heavily on gunfire (at the capsule's preamp). Use something less sensitive.

[Rasmus Wedin]

4060's are going to distort heavily on gunfire (at the capsule's preamp). Use something less sensitive.

I'm not so much worried about the how the gun shots will sound in the lav since I will be standing further back getting that sound with a boom. I'm more worried it will be such a loud sound it damages the lav, or even breaks it.

I know 4060s are very sensetive, but since we got this gig with very short notice (today), I have no time to buy or re-wire any other lavs for this shoot.

So all-in-all, I guess the concensus is "It should be fine, but you never know". Hmm, so many grey areas in this bussiness.....

[Glen Trew]

Only a Shure SM58 can survive a direct hit. Otherwise, no harm will come to your lavs.

[studiomprd]

" SM58 can survive a direct hit. "

EV's 635 & RE50

[Glen Trew]

Yes, I thought about the 635 and RE50 as soon as I pressed POST. The 635 is at least as bullet proof, and the RE50 is basically a 635 in an isolation handle.

gt

[dfisk]

I've used this lav inside engine compartments on race cars that are well above the threshold of pain, and they survived just fine. I wouldn't worry about damage, just distortion.

[MT Groove]

I have used COS-11's on talent firing thousands of rounds of .308's to .50 calibers to Canons. They're work just as good as new.

[John Steigerwald]

Two seasons of Top Shot with everything from handguns to cannons. No mics lost to gunfire yet.

[David Waelder]

Well, it's an impressive list of people who have used lavs with all kinds of gunfire without any adverse effects. And, that's consistent with my own experience. I've never had a problem with lavs, only boom mikes and, even then, only with fully automatic fire. So, I'll revise my recommendation based on the weight of the collective experience of the group - go ahead and use your DPA 4060s.

David

[Rasmus Wedin]

Thanks for the input guys, I'm off to the shooting range with my 4060s. Thanks for the reassurence and experience.

[Rasmus Wedin]

I'm back and everyting went fine, the 4060s survived the day. Thanks again!