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Wireless video to iPod - Monitor option for Reality TV sound mixers & boom ops


Brian Kaurich

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hpsoundbag.jpg

With a Teradek Cube encoder attached to a camera, the video transmission can be connected to over WiFi. I work as a sound mixer on a truTV show called Hardcore Pawn and I receive the video feed from my camera on an iPod Touch. I power the iPod from the USB port on a Remote Audio BDSv4u box and this allows the iPod to stay on all day. The ability to see the exact frame has made me a much better sound mixer for this show, which is filmed at a Detroit pawn shop. When the customers start getting angry and wild, the video feed on my iPod helps to show me exactly how close I can get my boom mic in. It also helps me to change my mic placement whenever my camera op changes his shot. The Teradek Cube is definitely a great tool for any reality TV sound mixer. I have also used the Cube on feature films so my boom operators can see what the camera sees. They strap an iPod to their wrist and then they can always see the frame.

-Brian

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That's very cool! I saw a Teradek Cube demo back in June at Cinegear Expo, and was very impressed with the system. I think there's about a half-second lag (12 frames), from my memory of the demo, so it's a little oft-putting for camera assistants, but it would work fine for this kind of situation.

http://cube.teradek.com/

Seems to me there's now an opportunity for an enterprising audio company to come up with a handy iPhone/iPod Touch flexible grip for the side of the bag...

--Marc W.

P.S. Love the BDS RM box. Once you're used to it, it's hard to imagine working without it!

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I worked with the Teradek in Boston in a crowded wifi area and it was very finicky. Sometimes it would pick up the signal and other times it wouldn't even when standing a few feet away from the TX. Another annoying thing I noticed is that when you shut down the camera which powers the TX and moved to a new area you would have to reboot the software and reestablish the signal which took a bit of time. When it worked I thought it was very nice system.

Andy

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Wow. Very cool. How much does that set weigh? Looks like 5 x radios and a boom, hence, the MixPre? No 788T? Transmit to cameras only? You wire talent with that rig on? Using Countryman B6s? Only reality I have experience with was 'Real World Miami" mid 90's I would guess. Production supplied the gear, fairly primitive. I'm interested to hear more on what it has evolved into.

Dean

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The Cube does have a 1/2 second delay but this has not been a problem for me. The system rebooting during a battery change can be annoying but since I'm a sound mixer, I can wait for the picture.

Dean, my sound bag has evolved quite a bit on this show. Season One I had my Sound Devices 442 & 744T with three radios. Season Two I had my 788T with seven radios. Season Three the production company decided to stop renting my gear and to rent all the sound gear from a rental house. After a short revolt when they gave us the Wendt X5 to use, we now have the setup that is pictured above. We have three sound mixers on the floor and a sound supervisor in a room recording to a 788T recorder. The store is covered with shark-fin antennas inside-and-out, which allows the supervisor to record the talent ISOs without fear of losing anyone. We have eight radio microphones in play and our booms are primary for the customers that come in. Our bags are about 25 lbs and much lighter than some other shows I work on. We use Countryman B6s and Sennheiser 416s for the boom microphones. I have been with the show for well over a year and the addition of the Teradek Cube has drastically changed the way I work.

-Brian

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I was on a shoot with the Teradek once and I can say that it didn't play nice with my Zaxcom QRX with IFB.

The unit seemed to jam my ifb reception regardless of channel setting. (on either unit)

It did not effect the UHF reception at all. So that was a treat at least.

Video looked great when it worked. I imagine that on hardcore pawn your DP had set up the wifi router array needed to totally cover the store.

We found that when used stand alone it had many kinks to be worked out. Also, iDevice support was not ready at that point (early 2011) and our DP was trying to get monitor functions working on tablet PCs. Maybe the system has evolved since then.

There is another thread regarding the Teradek system somewhere else on this board as well, I remember it had a lot of good info.

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The recent firmware updates for the Cube have made it pretty much plug-and-play. I just plug it into the camera and it connects to the iPod through the Quick Stream link, no router needed. Our camera assistant also connects to the Cube with his iPhone so he can see the display for battery/tape changes. The Cube works great for us. When I use it on feature films with my Zaxcom IFB100, I use a 2.4 GHz spectrum analysis program (http://www.metageek.net/) to see exactly where the best frequency is. This helps immensely when using anything in the 2.4 GHz band.

-Brian

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i have to say this is pretty cool. And could interesting use on some sets for boom opt's. I worked on a commercial where the DP decided to put a large zoom lens on to be able to get tights or wides without swapping the lens. Good for them, saves some time, but i could never tell if they were tight or wide. The ipod getting a video feed would be nice to check. I could see the boom opt wearing the ipod in a "joggers" arm strap, to check the frame and such.

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I could see the boom opt wearing the ipod in a "joggers" arm strap, to check the frame and such.

I just started doing this via a Cube through a dc powered airport on the MB cart. Then I strap an iPod touch with a joggers armband on my left inside forearm and have the feed right where I need it while booming. Has made a world of difference for me.

Going to force Bernie to use it tonight, but he doesn't know that yet...

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We used one the other day on our film for a long steadycam shot and I had to delay my comtek out to 16 frames or about 600mS.

Kind of a drag in terms of mixing way behind what you are seeing but the picture was beautiful and fairly solid.

This was the 2nd time around as it was ditched on the first attempt as it took about 3 minutes to reboot and it needed to do this due to power interruptions etc. Needless to say, this didn't fly well with the actors so they went hard line for it.

But for our long crane, walk into an nightclub scene it worked well the other night.

Scott Harber CAS

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My iPod is attached to a small Velcro piece from a Petrol bag, which I folded over to angle the iPod at me. This attaches to the Velcro on the sound bag. Nothing glamorous and for now, it works.

hpcamera.jpg

The Teradek Cube is attached to the camera between the Lectrosonics slot receiver and the large microwave transmitter. It's the small black box with the little antenna.

hppj.jpg

This is our stunned camera assistant and his iPhone. He couldn't believe that he could get the camera feed from now on.

hphood.jpg

This is the hood mount that the camera assistant made for me out of black wrap and gaff tape. It works very well.

hpscreen.jpg

The iPod can also save screen captures.

-Brian

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  • 3 months later...

I am so going to get me an iPod Touch now! I have a few camera ops that have these Teradek Cubes. The producers love them. No more 6 or 7 pound Panasonic monitors with V-mount battery to hold all day. Now they just have a iPad2 and they get used to the slight delay. Also, the antenna on these Cubes really want to be mounted so that it sticks straight up. The range is better than if they hang down or to the side. The camera op I work with quite often learned this the hard way and also through a lot of conversations with Teradek engineers. He has it working pretty damn flawlessly now.

Having an iPod Touch would be very useful to me. 1) as a camera view monitor and 2) to run an app called JumpStart LTC. It's a pretty cool app that is just a TC interface, not a master clock (yet). Either setting ToD or whatever TC numbers that the producer wants to see to my SB-3 and then to the bag or to the camera or both. I have it for my wife's iPad, but a small iPod Touch in my bag would be a lot better than the bulky size of the iPad! And like I said, it's my wife's iPad. Tax right off... ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Brian,

First of all, thanks for posting this. I got a few questions as well. You mentioned the rebooting time can be annoying. More or less how much reboot time is it? Also, what about power consumption? The specs say 2.5 watts. A Transvideo Titan X SD transmitter is rated at 1.9 watts. Does your camera ops experience noticeable power consumption differences between them? What about range? The specs say 300ft line of sight but that's probably stretching it. What's the real world range you've experienced with it? Do you usually lose range with the Teradek first or the Zaxcom IFB? Thanks in advance for the info.

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  • 1 month later...

of course systems without delay have been used by video assist for 20 years. the cheapest way to go is CH 59 systems.

here is all i know:

WiFi to computer only

Teradeck Video cube: approx $ 2000.00

Rod Clark sais: My company, Teradek, makes HD video encoders and a product of ours called Cube ….. Cube is the world's first camera-top HD video encoder. It's tiny for Steadicam rigs.

Here's some of our beta test footage http://vimeo.com/14214693

If you're interested in learning more about Cube you can check here www.teradek.com and here at www.thevideocube.com. http://cube.teradek.com/cube_family.html

Best, Rod Clark,

http://www.filmtools.com/teradek-hd-sdi-encoder-wifi.html

In a simple network (let's just say excluding the internet for simplicity's sake), really there are two main items that will contribute to Cube's latency. As I mentioned before, it takes about 100 milliseconds just to get the video into the Cube, compressed, moved over to the WiFi, and transmitted. It's on the receiving end where the two major differences occur. Those two differences are:

- RTP to laptop, opened in VLC

- HTTP Live Streaming to iOS (iPad/iPhone)

RTP to laptop, opened in VLC

In the advanced settings for VLC you can adjust the desired latency. There is a continuum. Less latency means a higher probability of dropped frames or frames arriving out of order. The latency can be set as low as 100 milliseconds, which in practice works pretty well. The latency can also be set as high as two seconds, which is crystal clear. In our experience, setting 300 milliseconds in VLC provides EXCELLENT quality video, HTTP Live Streaming to the iPad or iPhone is 10 seconds delay. So short answer:

VLC = 1/3 second = 10 frames

I-Pad = 10 seconds

The rate limiter on Cube is the ability to stream over WiFi and we reach that limit around 6Mbps. That means you can stream to three or four clients simultaneously if you have low bit rates. In my experience, it's better to stream to one client with a higher bitrate (3 or 4Mbps) and use some sort of network infrastructure to distribute the signal. This video answers the questions: http://vimeo.com/14644326 [who wants to manage that on a shoot?]

Regarding your second question: Do we make a Cube decoder? Yes. The encoder is the hot item, but we've had a ton of requests for a decoder that the VTR guy can use in their system. I think we're about 4-6 weeks away from delivering the Cube-to-Cube solution.

Other products they make: http://www.teradek.com/products.html

Let me know if you have any questions. Best, Rod Clark,

SergeiFranklin : I measured the delay. It's 5 frames. 1/5th of a second.

Lawrence Karman: 6 frame delay! Can you record it???

Eric Fletcher S.O.C. Are you kidding me? 6 frames? .25seconds? That’s UNUSABLE

Steve Irwin : Ipad has an issue with decoding latency that makes it nearly unusable now. But Teradeck is working on a RTP solution (Real Time Transfer Protocol) to help this. [Vaporware condensing slowly?]

Best to have some wireless network savvy experience before jumping in and

promising the world with this device. Some people refer to this as a wireless HD transmitter. It is not. [it takes in HD but spits out low res reduced color]

It is a HD video IP encoding device that can feed an external wireless router or

be ordered with built in WiFi. This tool has it's place but understand it's pros and cons to manage your and your clients expectations. [Make all the excuses in advance]

Questions: If the WiFi radio space is busy with other users does it slow down? (I assume it just wont work at all with heavy WiFi use around) What is the Security of your images over the air – and latter over the Internet? Can it do several streams at once or can there be several in the same space?

John Trunk says: For standard def one can use it with a laptop on a secured network with about a 5 to 10 second delay and also access all the files from an ipad or iPhone to play on there own.

However when one leaves the range of the network their access and files will no longer be available

You can access and play HD footage but not live only standard def is available live or pseudo-live with a 5 to 10 second delay. It is also important to have a good wireless router and there is no need to be on the Internet however you can access the files as well as the pseudo-live image from 3g or wifi from a remote location thus making it a great tool for second units.

Good Luck [sudolive=pseudo-live= nearly live]

Note June 2011: Q-take shows it on its own monitor with the usual 3 fr delay ( I have heard this only on from one user)???

Consider 150/350 Models for 5N w/cables, Difficult, tedious, extensive set-up.

Sold with the expectation you are an internet configuration expert -- if you are, it’s easy – if not, tech support is available but does not understand motion picture requirements. Expect at least 4 hours on the phone with tech support personnel. 5.2 band is much better than crowded 2.4 bands. OK to operate 2 units in the same space. Picture quality vs. delay adjustments is finicky. Uses Mpeg4 for compression which is not friendly to fast pans; they look horrible. Picture never gets as good as IDX or Boxx but good enough for most DITs to do color correction for DP and dailies. 2-4-frame delay after tweaking. Must have a MAC with Bonjour for set up. But think: you can send the picture to script or gaffers or producers with little hassle. Of course you loose control over content copyright, too. There is just password protection.

Q-Take receiver is not quite ready by October 2011. 4 frames late.

Derek H.: However, it DID definitely interfere with my Zaxcom QRX IFB unit. http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/8604-cube-encoders/

Paul Thompson: Overall, I would say things went great. You need to be comfortable using routers, and having a laptop or iPad handy to configure the cube. I used the Dual band cube in 5 GHz mode only, with a dedicated non-internet connected, private SSID (though not hidden) DLink router, which I would run out to set as though it were my tuner, and the ethernet cable my BNC.

Making sure the cube has constant power is a good way to avoid major issues, as it can sometimes take a couple of minutes for the cube to come back online if it's been shut off. I used a Sony M battery plate from Teradek when I had it on steadicam.

Image was best with bitrate around 5mbits or higher. Never heard a complaint from director/DP/production, though personally I could tell the image had some compression artifacts, and had an occasional step in its motion.

You'll want to familiarize yourself with the menus for the cube settings (only accessible via web browser) and play with caching (in ms) and keyframe interval.

NOTE: it didn't play nice with my Zaxcom QRX with IFB.

……it connects to the iPod through the Quick Stream link, no router needed. Our camera assistant also connects to the Cube with his iPhone so he can see the display for battery/tape changes. The Cube works great for us. When I use it on feature films with my Zaxcom IFB100, I use a 2.4 GHz spectrum analysis program (http://www.metageek.net/) to see exactly where the best frequency is. This helps immensely when using anything in the 2.4 GHz band.

[PS don’t use 2.4 use 5G and metageek make a pakage for that too... expensive though]

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Worked with the cube recently, it was a little on and off and needed some time the re log-on when it was powered down. I m glad to know that you can get more than one idevice at the same time to get video feed.

What i m concerned about is if i put a zax erxtc reciever on camera ( works on 2.4ghz as well ) how well will it co exist with the teradek cube? I guess a 2.4 spectrum analyser will come handy by then. There s a recent thread about a pocket sized analyser that does 2.4ghz as well for about 120$. I might grab one of those.

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We have been using a Teradek do do live webfeed red-carpet events, works great in downtown Toronto (in a movie theatre). Our delay was about 6 seconds from the camera to the web stream, camera to idevice was not obvious. We have been using the theatre's internet service, but on Monday, we are starting to use an LTE stick from one of our big 3 mobile phone providers. Initial tests at the location were very successful and should eliminate the only problem, which is the Cube/camera getting too far from the wifi hub.

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OK, so I finally got my iPod several weeks ago and I'm finally trying to get the Cube feed onto my iPod Touch 4th gen.

In talking to the Teradek engineers I have downloaded OPlayer and ZeroConfSpy apps to get the video to play on my iPod.

Does that sound about right to those that have used this hand held device? If so, then what is the proccess for getting it to work? I'm not really an Apple guy and obviously haven't used this set up yet to do this. Hopefully someone can kind of walk me through the set up. It seems the ZeroConfSpy just finds all the info needed by the player. Is it that simple?

Thanks in advance!

BTW, I love the JumpStartLTC app for starting TC on my SB-3. It works great for that. If this works well, then the iPod Touch is a great little addition to any sound bag.

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OK, so I finally got my iPod several weeks ago and I'm finally trying to get the Cube feed onto my iPod Touch 4th gen.

In talking to the Teradek engineers I have downloaded OPlayer and ZeroConfSpy apps to get the video to play on my iPod.

Does that sound about right to those that have used this hand held device? If so, then what is the proccess for getting it to work? I'm not really an Apple guy and obviously haven't used this set up yet to do this. Hopefully someone can kind of walk me through the set up. It seems the ZeroConfSpy just finds all the info needed by the player. Is it that simple?

Thanks in advance!

BTW, I love the JumpStartLTC app for starting TC on my SB-3. It works great for that. If this works well, then the iPod Touch is a great little addition to any sound bag.

Connect wifi to Cube. Use Zeroconfspy to connect to cube login. Should see the cube's name in the list. A safari page will open. As long as no one changed it login and password will be Admin. login to the cube. Look for the web address for the wireless quickview. Copy it. Logout. Properly close all running apps(press iPod button twice, press and hold an icon on the bottom they shake and then press the dashes to close the apps).

Open up Oplayer. Go to open URL. Paste web address you copied for the transmitter settings page. Click done. Video should show. The delay can be hefty. Once you get a connection Oplayer will save the address in the list, so you just have to click it next time. When you lose connection to the trans be it a batt change or interference you'll need to fully close Oplayer and restart it to get the video feed.

The cube manual is available online and has all of this info in it. Just do a search.

Good luck.

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Well with the kind help of folks here and of the Teradek engineers I uploaded all the apps needed to my iPod Touch and I finally got it working. It's pretty cool and a great help just knowing what the shot is and how far in I can go. I need to figure out a way to attach the iPod to my bag now so that it doesn't flop around. I've also been wanting to get the BDS with USB port in it, so maybe next month I'll get one of those. So far it's actually been a help and a neat tool. We had a shot today that required the talent to have an iPad in the shot. Well the only iPad available was the one the producer was using as a camera monitor. So we took the iPad off of the Teradek to use as a prop and then linked in my iPod Touch so she could see the shot and monitor the scene. She thought is was cool that we had so many options for her to use. Bonus Points scored with her and the production company for us as a free lance team, "Yeah, hire Chas and Greg again, they've got all the toys!"

Here's a screen shot taken from my cell phone. Kind of a 2 camera self portrait via a Panasonic HDX-900/Cube/iPod Touch. Audio guy in his natural state: Seated!

6861171332_0a747896e5_b.jpg

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