curleysound Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Take, and others, I just did a music video where I did Hard Disk playback with timecode on track 2. The video is going to be cut on FCP (They shot HD, but I don't know yet what version of FCP they will use). Does FCP read audio TC, or will I have to re-cut the file with the same TC in Boom Recorder? Thanks, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Take, and others, I just did a music video where I did Hard Disk playback with timecode on track 2. The video is going to be cut on FCP (They shot HD, but I don't know yet what version of FCP they will use). Does FCP read audio TC, or will I have to re-cut the file with the same TC in Boom Recorder? Thanks, Tom I believe it does not, at least so far. But if you have count off beeps could they not position the music in the timeline @ the right TC address? (Assuming downbeat @ 01:00:00:00.) Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curleysound Posted April 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 They <i>could</i> do that, but I'm just trying to make it nice and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 It's actually simpler to move the audio around and match a countoff beep to a timeline position visually than it is to do just about anything w/ TC in Final Cut. It is a very TC unfriendly app. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 If you shot on digital, they'll need to establish their sync offset anyway (to compensate for digital image processing time). However, it should be consistent unless they change the camera setup to one that requires a different amount of processing. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curleysound Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 It's actually simpler to move the audio around and match a countoff beep to a timeline position visually than it is to do just about anything w/ TC in Final Cut. It is a very TC unfriendly app. Philip Perkins This is very interesting to me. I guess I always thought that TC is frame accurate, so just line up the numbers and everything should fall into place. No? Thanks, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takev Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Hello Tom, The Boom Recorder package comes with a BWFImporter.component, if the editor has Final Cut Pro 4 or lower you can give this to the editor and it will let Final Cut Pro read Boom Recorder's timecode natively. He will have to put this component in the /Library/QuickTime/ folder. When he has Final Cut Pro 5.2 he should remove this component. Cheers in the manual of Boom Recorder it is explained in the chapter for "qttc". Cheers, Take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 <i>"This is very interesting to me. I guess I always thought that TC is frame accurate, so just line up the numbers and everything should fall into place. No?</i> Tom, If you're referring to playback for a music video, keep in mind that the timecode is coming from the playback, not the camera. So, in this case the timecode is frame accurate to your playback. A digital camera, meanwhile, is taking some time to process the images it captures, so therefore the delay. John Blankenship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curleysound Posted April 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 John, Good point. This shoot turned out to be a pretty good example of when doing it right goes wrong. I discussed the Timecode issue with the producer, asked him to sign off on 29.97ND for the playback, as he insisted that they were doing 24P on the Sony F900. Since the shoot, the director/editor informed me that they were shooting 24Fps, and not 23.97 which seems thoroughly odd to me, but he was having issues with the sync. Any idea if there is a way to conform 24 frames to 29.97ND? This guy might also not know what he's talking about, but either way, we exchanged a lot of emails. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 The short answer is, "There is always a way ($)." The longer answer starts before you ever shoot. What are you shooting on and what will you finish on? If you're shooting on film and ending on video, then the film will be "pulled down" by one tenth of one percent. If, in the finished product, you want the music to be played back at exactly its original speed, then you would need to "pull up" the music for the playback tape and lock that with 30fps NDF time code. That way, when the playback is synced with the picture, it will match and the song will be at its original speed. If you're starting on video and ending on video then, usually, you won't do any "pull up" of the music. However, if the camera is actually shooting at a true 24fps and the "pull down" will occur in the editing software, here's where it gets tricky. Then, how you prepare the playback tracks depends upon several variables. In your case, it sounds like the main thing they will need to do is to lower the speed of the original song by one tenth of one percent. When shooting to video, I usually try to send song playback to track one and timecode playback to track two as well as using the timecode slate. This way there is an alternative and music can be matched to music, if sync becomes an issue. One thing that I'm still not sure of is how the new Panasonic HVX-200 handles these issues in its 24 frame mode. With the Varicam, you're always using 29.97 timecode because the camera is always recording 60 fields and "tagging" which ones to use in playback, but it's my understanding that the HVX-200 has a true 24fps mode that only records 24 frames to the P-2 card. Since I was shooting Hi-Def on Panasonic and staying on video, I approached everything just like any video shoot (original speed music/29.97tc) and, so far, the word is that post worked just fine. If that's the case it sounds like the camera may actually be capturing at a pulled down rate. Does anyone have any better understanding of this? Someone please add to, or correct, anything I haven't stated properly. John Blankenship, C.A.S. Indianapolis (Super Bowl Champions!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curleysound Posted April 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 John, Sounds right on. It just annoys me that I confirmed with production beforehand, and was still wrong because production and the director said different things. I offered to roll backup to the camera, but was turned down due to extensive steadicam use (And no wireless available as this was not revealed to me until the day of, and my wireless were with my brother on another shoot anyhow... pre-pro?). Anyhow, it seems to have blown over. They're dealing with it. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 I keep telling my students they need to run a test to be certain. With so many variations and combintation, and new flavors arriving almost ever week, I can only be pretty sure if I have done exactly the same thing before, with exactly the same equipment, and know all the settings -including the camera-recorder, as a "small" change there can have big effects! (in other words almost NEVER!) a major concern is not knowing absolutely for positive sure what the camera-recorder frame rate really is, everyone is enraptured with "24P" (must be like 35mm film, right! it must be!!), and with all the editing programs and their flavors: Final Cut semi-Pro being popular, but mostly a pain! Naturally the Producer and Director don't really know, and their both "knowing" conflicting facts is pretty common, as are those "on the day" changes, which I call "...Oh, by the way ...'s)" GRR! did you get that sign-off in writing?? GRRR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curleysound Posted April 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Absolutely, I did! Get it in writing every time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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