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Gotta say, folks, rough levelling dialog while editing and saving the automation for the "float" moves is very fast. It also give you more gain available, ie clip+ automation if you need it. This feature alone kept me from taking PT seriously as my main post axe for many years--I wasn't willing to give it up. Now, if they would only get non-real-time-bounce to work.....

But, as I said, a lot of unhappy PT users on the DUC, mostly about upgrade pricing and EOLing of some very expensive hardware. Me? I'll be using it "native"...

phil p

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It's called automation. Highlight the clip, adjust the gain.

Automation controls the track fader. It's a wonderful thing, but those faders usually come after any inserts or eq in a channel.

Clip gain is pre-insert, pre-eq. This makes a difference if you do a any serious processing during the mix.

Also clip gain lets you isolate individual words or even phonemes, dip or boost as necessary, and then never worry about it again... so you can treat the whole line as one consistent volume when you're mixing, and mix for feeling instead of "mouse mixing" to correct problems. Or you can select any number of clips, on the different tracks or non-contiguous if you want, and boost/dip them all at once.

-- at least, that's how it's been in Nuendo for the past 6 or 7 years.

Now, here's a question for PT10 users:

Within PT's new "clip gain", can you take a pencil tool and actually draw a gain curve to dip a single consonant or boost just a couple of frames? Sort of like mouse-mixing an automation curve, but within the clip (and with all the advantages of clip gain control). It's incredibly handy for fixing problems, particularly things like snaps and clicks that don't get spotted until the final review.

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Uh, no need to show a video for me, thanks. We've had a zoomable pencil tool for clip gain, as well as clip-wide handles (or a fullsize on-screen fader for the clip, calibrated in dB) in the Nuendo world for a long time...

The clip gain curve also integrates with fades and dissolves, so the program doesn't have to render separate fade files...

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I've just been bringing video into PT as QT .mov for years. What is the advantage of going out the AjA card, besides such silly things as colour accuracy?

Sync. The Blackmagic etc cards (some of them) can be locked to house sync the same way your DAW can, so you have predictable accurate sync all the time. If you are just playing a QT off the computer's clock (as it would be within PT if picture is just going to a computer monitor) the sound-picture relationship drifts around all the time.

phil p

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Now, if they would only get non-real-time-bounce to work.....

If only.

I have to admit, I sometimes enjoy being forced to quality check my work as I bounce down to another audio track in the session (think dancing in the studio to the final mix of a new song), and I won't stop doing this once offline bounce is implemented.

Then I have to bounce an hour long show, and don't give a f&*$ anymore. It only takes me 30 minutes to eat dinner.

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Drift from being in the computer, same place as the audio. Are there any posts that you can recommend that have some tests showing how much of a drift there is? I have done two hour prints and not heard a complaint.

Sync. The Blackmagic etc cards (some of them) can be locked to house sync the same way your DAW can, so you have predictable accurate sync all the time. If you are just playing a QT off the computer's clock (as it would be within PT if picture is just going to a computer monitor) the sound-picture relationship drifts around all the time.

phil p

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My issues with native qt and sync are not with the final product, but during playback qt sometimes drips frames our delays the decoding of a frame in favor of some other process. Things look in sync on playback, next time I playback they look like they've drifted, then they look back in sync. On my old system, powerbook g4, I had this problem a lot with h.264 qts and always worked on dv streams as a work around. I still haven't gotten around to buying a black magic interface, but with a new 8 core tower I haven't had any notable issues.

http://wanderingear.net

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h.264 is a processor intensive codec.

With PT9 (w/Complete Production Toolkit), I've been working on a Mac Pro and have been using a Black Magic card for video playback. Even running a DVC-PRO 100 hi-def playback stream, along with many dozens of audio tracks and hundreds of plugins, I haven't noticed sync being much of an issue (once the proper offset is dialed-in, of course). I can free up even more resources if I use something like ProRes LT which requires considerably less video data throughput.

PT10 seems to behave at least as well as 9, however I haven't put it through its paces enough to thoroughly evaluate it yet.

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FWIW...

All the PCI slots in my main audio computer are taken (DSP, i/o, etc...) so I've been running video as FireWire out for years, into a relatively generic FW>YC converter. Lipsync has never been a problem on any length show... every bit as accurate as when I used to have a Doremi V1 chasing and being steered by 9-pin. The computer audio i/o is locked to wordclock, which is locked to house black... and that seems to be all that's needed.

It might depend on the DAW. If a system is just firing a start mark via timecode, drift will be an issue. And a major issue if you change code format.

There is a latency issue, 5 frames for pix to get out via FireWire and be converted to video. But the DAW compensates for that dynamically (i.e., advances pix during play; no advance during jog/shuttle/scrub).

But the only time color sync is an issue is when dubbing video from computer to pro VTR. That's what frame synchronizers are for.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Cineform, Pro Res 422, or any non-GOP based codecs all rock in PT. I've never had an issue, and newer computers handle glorious 1080P with very little strain on the CPU. I used to make lo res/hi res, but don't even bother any more.

Yes, it sure is. If i'm given a h.264 MP4, I will render a more CPU friendly 'proxy' (or 'Intermediary') to work from. A Cineform MPEG-2, AVI, or Avid DNxHD/MOV works well in my 'Windows' environment.
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Drift from being in the computer, same place as the audio. Are there any posts that you can recommend that have some tests showing how much of a drift there is? I have done two hour prints and not heard a complaint.

Check this site out, he explains the issues w/ QT pretty well: http://www.pharoahaudio.com/syncheckproducthomepage.html

I have one of his boxes, it really shows you what's going on sync-wise in your system.

Also: http://duc.avid.com/...ad.php?t=282174, scroll down to "Garnoil"'s post re unresolved QT

playback in ProTools.

phil p

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I read the article, and it looks like using a QT file is a tighter sync than most of the other options on there. 1 frame, and no start errors.

Here is a link to the article that I think was meant:

http://www.pharoahaudio.com/ptvideosyncstudy.html

Besides that, I don't think the article proved much. What codec was used for the QT? This test was quite old based on the G5 used for the test. A dinosaur really. PT 6.7 means the test was what, 5 years old? Useless. Their product looks pretty cool though.

Then I read the DUC posting and they were mostly complaining about the Cannopus. I'm now more convinced than ever that Pro Res 422 in PT is tighter than any hardware solution save a 2K AJA.

So I ran a non scientific test. I put a 108 minute movie with a window burn on a second monitor. I put the BIG COUNTER up on the same screen. I took random screen shots over the movie running from the head to the tail. Zero drift from head to tail.

I would love some more scientific evidence.

Check this site out, he explains the issues w/ QT pretty well: http://www.pharoahaudio.com/syncheckproducthomepage.html I have one of his boxes, it really shows you what's going on sync-wise in your system. Also: http://duc.avid.com/...ad.php?t=282174, scroll down to "Garnoil"'s post re unresolved QT playback in ProTools. phil p
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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello to all.

I have one question about the bounce on the ProTools 10.0

I have done the stereo mix. (music track)

After the bounce in mix they created two files (.wav)

For example: mymix(L).wav and mymix®.wav

I opened the file mymix(L).wav and it is a stereo and the mymix®.wav also is stereo.

I tried different bounce but they create the same format [mymix(L)] and no one file (.wav)

Mr. Wexler can be remove this topic in the categorie "The Post Place"?

Thank you very much

Vasileios Alexandris

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I've had this happen a few times, I'm using PT V9.0.5 Make sure you're bouncing a set of outputs, not an Aux bus. It doesn't seem to like that. Also, make sure you're doing 'multiple mono' as the file type and 'convert after bounce'

Sometimes it happens, then I'll re-export using the exact same settings and it'll be fine. Glitch. Sad to see it still persists in v.10.

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