dominiquegreffard Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I m very satisfied with my erx's as well. never had a complaint from post. This is what i have for my zaxnet antenna. It s not perfect but better than on the side. The range is fine for small crew work but quickly get short for bigger sets. The zaxnet signal don t go through walls as well as radios or comteks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim M Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I have not Derek and I am not trying to argue I'm just curious. I like this workflow...if it works, but my brain has a problem trusting it. From timecode primer book, "...the sync word (genlock) accurately identifies the end of frame and shows a time code reader where to begin the next frame." So even if the ERX is continually jammed it doesn't fix that if a shooter is constantly shooting that after an hour or even less accurate sync will be lost. I would figure in reality that sync is very important since there are no adr or second take options. I'm interested in a assistant editor who puts these things together of an opinion. I wonder if any even reference TC at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arnold Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I have not Derek and I am not trying to argue I'm just curious. I like this workflow...if it works, but my brain has a problem trusting it. From timecode primer book, "...the sync word (genlock) accurately identifies the end of frame and shows a time code reader where to begin the next frame."So even if the ERX is continually jammed it doesn't fix that if a shooter is constantly shooting that after an hour or even less accurate sync will be lost. I would figure in reality that sync is very important since there are no adr or second take options. I'm interested in a assistant editor who puts these things together of an opinion. I wonder if any even reference TC at all... I'm no TC expert, but if sync was a problem with non genlock boxes, I think we'd all know it by now. I've done multiple shoots with 5 or 6 ISO tracks running and a left/right mix and never had a word of problems from post. I've also sat on set with DIT on a very large scale commercial and watched him sync my audio with picture in seconds. I think maybe you are looking for problems here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 If we're talking about maintaining sync on a single camera shoot, problems with sync without genlock would depend upon two primary factors: The length of the shot and the stability of the camera's crystal. I believe Tim is simply addressing the possibility that a camera could drift enough over a one hour (or longer) period to cause sync issues. The camera grabs the time code when it goes into record, so it would be in sync at the head of the shot, but if its speed is not locked to a genlock reference, and the camera drifts enough during the hour, then audio sync problems could occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 " definitely a design flaw " that's a bit strong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I'm no TC expert, but if sync was a problem with non genlock boxes, I think we'd all know it by now. I've done multiple shoots with 5 or 6 ISO tracks running and a left/right mix and never had a word of problems from post. I've also sat on set with DIT on a very large scale commercial and watched him sync my audio with picture in seconds. I think maybe you are looking for problems here... In your case, were your shots of an hour, or longer, duration? That, I believe, is what was being addressed -- the possibility of a camera drifting over a substantial amount of time. But, no, I'm not aware of having encountered issues, either. However, the size of the production doesn't prove the point. Most national commercials I work on seldom have takes longer than a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 The camera grabs the time code when it goes into record, so it would be in sync at the head of the shot, but if its speed is not locked to a genlock reference, and the camera drifts enough during the hour, then audio sync problems could occur. Copy that. Thanks for putting the whole TC/Genlock complex into one comprehensive sentence John. Saved me a lot of reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim M Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 yes thanks john. I'm not of the certain stature to just make a statement and have someone believe me llike yourself. Lol so I referenced the primer book...but what he describes is why it isn't necessarily a fool proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Orusa Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 For hour-long shots, I can understand your concern about not having genlock. I think there are generally less of those kind of shoots, and even among them the sync may not be such an issue. If you have multiple cameras rolling for an hour, perhaps in a live situation, I would consider genlock a necessity. If you are doing a low budget cooking show that rolls for an hour, post could deal with drift if they didn't want to pay for genlock. Besides, genlock is only useful if the camera supports it. For DSLR shoots, firstly they can't roll for that long, secondly they don't have genlock capabilities. Mark O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 +1 to what Mark said, and I'd like to add that if there are hour long shots it is likely that there are only a couple of shots per day, which in turn makes manual re-syncing in post an easy exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arnold Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 In your case, were your shots of an hour, or longer, duration? That, I believe, is what was being addressed -- the possibility of a camera drifting over a substantial amount of time. But, no, I'm not aware of having encountered issues, either. However, the size of the production doesn't prove the point. Most national commercials I work on seldom have takes longer than a few minutes. I couldn't tell you John. Certainly done quite a few long sit down interviews with them and not encountered anything that's bothered post, but in those situations one can usually cable up. I also suspect that on those occasions the takes were very long, but probably not an hour. I certainly wouldn't object if Zaxcom wished to add Genlock to the features list, but as you say - they've always been perfect on everything I've done. Perhaps we should all do some tests. I still don't think they are 'inadequate' or that the audio output isn't far above what Pluraleyes requires (bearing in mind that most shooters are still using a front mic of dubious quality for this!). The commercial was indeed a bad example in this case. I merely wished to indicate that I'd seen straightforward syncing in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Latest Nomad manual is online: http://www.zaxcom.com/instruction-manuals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendybones Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Orusa Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 They continually release manuals that say the Nomad has 8 digital outputs. It only has 6! Mark O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Hey how do you back up the primary cards? I copy the whole thing (not sure how the zfiles work...). But if there's only one file on it, and I'm copying the whole card anyway, well that's a waste. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominiquegreffard Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Hey how do you back up the primary cards? I copy the whole thing (not sure how the zfiles work...). But if there's only one file on it, and I'm copying the whole card anyway, well that's a waste. Thoughts? Use the zaxconvert software Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Hey how do you back up the primary cards? I copy the whole thing (not sure how the zfiles work...). But if there's only one file on it, and I'm copying the whole card anyway, well that's a waste. Thoughts? You can copy all the zfiles, but no matter how much you have recorded, you will be copying files equal in size to your cf card, which is a huge waste. Zaxconvert is the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Is there any benefit to archiving .zax files over .wav? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Is there any benefit to archiving .zax files over .wav? Not really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Not really Oh. Thought there might be. To the converter then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 MARF is very helpful as a field acquisition format - it is very robust and has saved the day for many sound mixers. But for archiving - a .wav file is the way to go. Mainly because to archive as a .zax file you would need to transfer and save the entire contents of the card - even if a small amount of data was written to the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 The more fast paced and demanding the work gets, the less MARF has become useful to me, more like a speed bump honestly. I like it when working on the cart, or some sort of episodic series, but not having the ability to press stop, make any last min meta data changes (without remirroring) and hand off a card when the unforeseen request from the client hits you with your pants down. Continuous is obviously the answer, but at the expense of accurate meta data efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 I'd trade last minute meta data changes for a more foolproof recording format any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 I'd trade last minute meta data changes for a more foolproof recording format any day. Second that Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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