Olle Sjostrom Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I don't own a Nomad and I've never had the pleasure of working with one, but the one thing I've considered as the main reason for purchase is the new workflow with dynamic range that allows for 100% guarantee (sort of) of no distortion. This if course comes at the little price that the editors have to adjust the levels accordingly and that would require me to send an explanatory email to them. But the reward is no distortion. I dunno, I feel like that trumps every editor saying levels are too low. In premiere, final cut and avid, gaining is a simple process. Whereas mixing to appropriate levels in a reality situation isn't always a simple process. At least this is my theoretical view. If you can't explain the benefits of neverclip to your clients, maybe the "problem"doesn't lie with the Nomad. And I'm saying this in general, not directly to w4vs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 But that's been clear from the get go; it's called Neverclip , not LessNoise. I see your problem though and I hear you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 +1 to Olle --- we should not be confusing the presence or lack of extremely low level noise with the main purpose of NeverClip. All of the current digital systems have very little if any "noise" on the low end, there is no tape hiss, no modulation noise, no significant preamp noise with any of the modern mic preamps used in most of the professional gear with use. What ALL preamps are subject to, with the exception of a NeverClip input, is the possibility of distorsion, clipping, at the input. NeverClip prevents this with dynamic range that often exceeds the dynamic range of the microphone being used. There will be clipping at the mic capsule for which no input, NeverClip or otherwise, can prevent. In these rare cases, even with a NeverClip input, the choice of microphone must be changed. I'm kind of simplistic when it comes to understanding how something actually works --- I have an academic and intellectual curiosity and need to know but when the result is beautiful, I do not feel the need to pursue the technical side as much. For me, I'm good with statements like this: "I have no idea what is really going on in this box even though it does sound great" - w4vz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) you could also try calling Glenn at Zaxcom next week. I'm sure he would love to explain it to you. He has chimed in on these threads, and at Zaxcom.com, but if you want to get really specific then a phone call may be in order. When I see him in person, i can get a lot of really good explanations to my questions. The guy knows his stuff. I say next week because it's a holiday in the USA, and a lot of people are out. If they are working,t they're probably also covering for people on vacation. If you do a search, there are specific NeverClip threads on here as well. This is a Nomad thread, so I think some people took that specific discussion to its own thread (since the Nomad isn't the only Zaxcom product with Neverclip, it was just the first). Actually, I think the whole current product line has Neverclip now that the older Devas have been retired, and the Deva32 has it (it's in the wireless mic transmitters too). Edited July 2, 2015 by johnpaul215 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 totally diff question: it´s still not possible to show the scene-number of a recording in the home-display? Just found an old thread from 2011 where this was promised to come ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze Frias Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 totally diff question: it´s still not possible to show the scene-number of a recording in the home-display? Just found an old thread from 2011 where this was promised to come ... there's no scene or take number on the home screen as of firmware version 2.27. You have to press the A-MIX button to got to the metadata screen where you'll see what the scene and take number is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arnold Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 totally diff question: it´s still not possible to show the scene-number of a recording in the home-display? Just found an old thread from 2011 where this was promised to come ... This has been 'maybe coming' for about four million years now along with user selectable home screens etc etc etc. I suspect that Nomad Touch is supposed to fill in these features, which - on a personal level - I regard as the biggest cop out ever, as running around with a tablet clamped to my mixer bag is highly counter intuitive. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Zaxcom do like to surprise! As regards 'w4vz's post (real name please!) Glenn has described the ISO attenuation as utilising the full 24 bits of 24 bit recording, which - by his definition - other 24 bit recorders DO NOT USE instead maxing this figure out at around 20 bits, the rest being 'noise'. Thus raising gain levels in post by a reasonable amount should not increase the noise floor. That's the whole point! Tests I've done so far with edit have had favourable comparisons to non-Neverclip ISO, so however it works, it seems to be a bonus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arnold Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Well, you ARE being picky. The Nomad offers a system that - as far as I know - offers the highest dynamic range of any portable recorder. My tests so far confirm that it does offer cleaner tracks in post whe recording 'hot' signals (in my case the exhaust noise of a sports car) when gain is added in post, in comparison to the same track recorded without using this feature. I've yet to try this on vocal work but I can't see that it wouldn't work there either. If the result of using Neverclip ISO properly (i.e. not reducing the headroom excessively) meant huge increases in noise floor in post then the whole system would be a pointless invention and you could achieve a similar results by simply reducing the trim on the ISO track. However it does seem to work. Edited July 3, 2015 by James Arnold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze Frias Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 That said I need to call Zaxcom (best piece of advice I got here). The Senator would be proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 "That said I need to call Zaxcom (best piece of advice I got here) and I am extremely surprised no one has done it already. Will report if I get real news confirmed and objective data and won't comment any more here in the meantime so feel free to bash me in the wind." I don't think anyone is really "bashing" you, it is just that many of us are surprised by your insistence on explanations, objective data, diagrams and so forth. You should also not be surprised that no one has called Zaxcom because that is just not the case. Many of us have called Zaxcom, had numerous and extensive conversations, but where most of us and you differ is that we got sufficiently informed to our own satisfaction and you have not yet gotten that. I hope you do get the information you need from Zaxcom so that you can continue to fully enjoy the benefits of NeverClip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Yes, there does seem to be a knowledge gap here, however, it's becoming increasingly obvious that it's not in the explanation of Neverclip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arnold Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Of course it will be better when recording hot signal however this has nothing to do with my original question... Saying that the system "as far as you know offers the highest dynamic range" and "sound better when recording hot signals" after "gain is added in post" are just simple facts already well explained in the marketing campaign around neverclip.. The real question for me is how it is implemented and better if it can be flexible in its use (hacking heart here). No one on this forum can answer that so far. Yes I am being picky. You make it sound like it is bad. I also already said I like the Nomad and find it sonically superior to SD so why try to challenge what I said when all I am trying to do is get a better understanding for everyone? I do challenge every piece of technology I use all the time even if they are great already so I know their exact limit. I am not comfortable with blind use even if I can miss little things sometime as I made my nomad purchase very fast with the little infos available on the net. If you are happy using something that you do not understand completely then be happy and I wish you (and everyone else) very well but there is no need adding to the discussion on this basis. I am not saying you are wrong; I am saying I do not assume things and make comments based on my subjective appreciation of the recordings. Coming from the studio world I have had a lot of that and find it completely inaccurate and an invitation to blind faith. From where I come from in engineering, I only trust data, diagrams, signal flows and objective measurements; never subjective assessment. Even thow I follow my ears on my nomad to tell me it does sound better I do not take it for granted and seek objective confirmation. Ideally from Zaxcom. That said I need to call Zaxcom (best piece of advice I got here) and I am extremely surprised no one has done it already. Will report if I get real news confirmed and objective data and won't comment any more here in the meantime so feel free to bash me in the wind. I am not a big fan of this passive/aggressive nonsense. There is no crime is wanting to know the specifics of how the ISO attenuation works (personally I'm just happy that it does and happy enough with the explanations I've had from this board). However, so far all you've managed to do is throw your weight around in a generic Zaxcom Q&A thread, ask a series of dumb questions about it's features in an extremely unpolite manner, demand that nobody short of Zaxcom themselves reply, snipply blow your own trumpet as a 'lecturer' and only very grudgingly offer mediocre thanks to those who have helped you out. All whilst singularily failing to communicate how you intend to use your files and your clients needs - information we need to offer you some of our experience.I hope you manage to reign in your attitude when speaking to Zaxcom (and this is coming from someone who has had his run-ins with them in the past).And please consider this - frequency response diagrams and signal flow charts are all very well, but as location sound mixers we primarily depend on our ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe Dolinger Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Hey w4vs, it's been said before that our job (and most film jobs) is 50% skill and 50% personality. You're making yourself seem like the kind of person who might not be called back because of the latter. I'm not personally offended by anything you've said here, but I can say that your ego is getting in the way of learning from some very talented and successful people. Don't hold yourself back. Good luck and I hope you find the answers you're looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarcanon Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I am not a big fan of this passive/aggressive nonsense. There is no crime is wanting to know the specifics of how the ISO attenuation works (personally I'm just happy that it does and happy enough with the explanations I've had from this board). However, so far all you've managed to do is throw your weight around in a generic Zaxcom Q&A thread, ask a series of dumb questions about it's features in an extremely unpolite manner, demand that nobody short of Zaxcom themselves reply, snipply blow your own trumpet as a 'lecturer' and only very grudgingly offer mediocre thanks to those who have helped you out. All whilst singularily failing to communicate how you intend to use your files and your clients needs - information we need to offer you some of our experience. Not to mention while having very cleverly not identified himself, the better to not have to own his statements. Anonymous trolls are best ignored, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howy Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 There is a lengthy description of how NeverClip works here... http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week44/OG/html/1408-1/US08878708-20141104.html There are other lengthy descriptions floating around the forums too, but I am kind of short on time to get into it at the moment. Also, the scene-take display on the Nomad's home screen is being tested now. -howy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arnold Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 There is a lengthy description of how NeverClip works here... http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week44/OG/html/1408-1/US08878708-20141104.html There are other lengthy descriptions floating around the forums too, but I am kind of short on time to get into it at the moment. Also, the scene-take display on the Nomad's home screen is being tested now. -howy You're getting all the thumbs up for that nugget of information Howy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikko Kolehmainen Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 There is a lengthy description of how NeverClip works here... http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week44/OG/html/1408-1/US08878708-20141104.html There are other lengthy descriptions floating around the forums too, but I am kind of short on time to get into it at the moment. Also, the scene-take display on the Nomad's home screen is being tested now. -howy This is cool Thanks Howy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Also, the scene-take display on the Nomad's home screen is being tested now. -howy That will make me very happy. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodoHu Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Is there a possibility to read out the date off the .zax files? Would be essential that all recorded clips are marked with the date recording date, and not when they are transferred to computer. Same thing should also apply to mirroring clips and clips recorded on TRXLAs and the like. That would probably mean the date metadata would have to be transmitted by zaxnet, because the TRXLA don't have an internal clock, right? Is there such a thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 User Bits should have the date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodoHu Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 So how do the user bits translate to the mirrored files? And how to set the file date when you import with ZaxConvert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 It would be nice if files mirrored after the record date had creation dates that reflected the original record date, but the file creation date is set by the OS. However it's an easy thing to change on a Mac using the touch command: touch -t %Year%Month%Day%Hour%Minute.%Seconds /Path/To/File Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodoHu Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 On 27.11.2015, 22:36:42, Wandering Ear said: It would be nice if files mirrored after the record date had creation dates that reflected the original record date, but the file creation date is set by the OS. However it's an easy thing to change on a Mac using the touch command: touch -t %Year%Month%Day%Hour%Minute.%Seconds /Path/To/File This is to type into the mac terminal?! Will it change just the behaviour on Zaxcovert? Or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 On 12/9/2015 at 11:24 PM, DodoHu said: This is to type into the mac terminal?! Will it change just the behaviour on Zaxcovert? Or something else? It simply updates the recorded file creation date of the file you run the command on. It doesn't change any behavior of any application. I'm sure it'd be possible to write a script to read the csv sound report tc values and apply it to the file creation date for every file in a folder using the above command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aff Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 On 7/8/2015 at 11:12 AM, howy said: There is a lengthy description of how NeverClip works here... http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week44/OG/html/1408-1/US08878708-20141104.html There are other lengthy descriptions floating around the forums too, but I am kind of short on time to get into it at the moment. Also, the scene-take display on the Nomad's home screen is being tested now. -howy This link is no longer current. I've tried searching the patent office; no luck so far. Any update would be appreciated. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the different language used for the Nomad–I get how neverclip works there–and the TRX transmitters–I don't get how it works there. For example, I don't understand how to make the equivalent attenuation function that exists in the Nomad. Expander? Gain reduction? And the Dynamics function is always on? The manual is cryptic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.