Fostex DV824 Vs D2424

[curleysound]

I've been seeing a few people using the Fostex DV824 unit on their carts. I've also seen that Fostex makes a D2424 which has a DVDram drive option, and is somehow about 1/2 the cost of the 824. They're both AC powered, and have timecode, and appear to be roughly the same size. Despite having 1/4" balanced I/O is there any reason why the DV824 is showing up on carts and not the D2424?

Tom

[Sergio Sanmiguel]

My guess is that the system software on the DV824 is similar to that on the PD6 (film oriented), and the D2424 is more like a tape machine multitrack recorder (for music) where they don't use much metadata alike features...

The DV824 comes with a 12v option.

[Philip Perkins]

The D2424 records in a proprietary format (FDMS v3), and the options for getting the audio off the machine aren't great (ie slow).  Many location music people use the Alesis HD24 which seems to have a somewhat better feature set and convertors people like.  It also records in its own format (ADAT/FST) but has better options for converting the files out to wav or AIFF ("fireport").  I looked long and hard @ these before getting into Metacorder, and decided that I didn't want to deal with converting all those files before being able to edit.  For any sort of project where you have to turn in telecineable dailies these won't work.  The major buyer of these decks are bands recording their shows.

Philip Perkins

ADAT_HD24_FAQ.pdf

[curleysound]

Thanks folks,

  Phillip, that bit about the file format was key. I didn't see that in the blurbs I was reading. I've been a happy Boom Recorder user for a while, but I was looking for something a little more substantial to have on the cart.

On a tangent note, anyone know how to get TC out of Boom Recorder if I wanted to jam a slate to it? I've been using the PD4 as a TC source, but if I wanted to do something without the DAT, I'd be in trouble...

Thanks,

Tom

[Jeff Wexler]

On a tangent note, anyone know how to get TC out of Boom Recorder if I wanted to jam a slate to it? I've been using the PD4 as a TC source, but if I wanted to do something without the DAT, I'd be in trouble...

Thanks,

Tom

I believe you will always need a TC source with BoomRecorder (not of course a PD-4 if all you need is timecode source). I don't think BoomRecorder has a software TC generator (although it does access the Mac's time-of-day clock it is not smpte TC). So, using something, like a Denecke d-code box or an Ambient lockit or Horita whatever, that unit would be what you could jam a slate from.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[bcopenhagen]

On a tangent note, anyone know how to get TC out of Boom Recorder if I wanted to jam a slate to it? I've been using the PD4 as a TC source, but if I wanted to do something without the DAT, I'd be in trouble...

Thanks,

Tom

What would your TC source be?  Are you thinking to use a software SMPTE generator, such as MOTU supplies with their interfaces?  That would likely be pretty inaccurate, as it would depend on the interface clock.  It's fairly widely known that the Traveler has a very unstable clock and can't be used as a clock source for TC.

Your best bet using Boom Recorder is to have a constant TC source from which Boom Recorder reads its TC for time-stamping files, and which Boom Recorder uses as a clock source to create sample-accurate recordings.  Something like a Denecke GR-1, or an Ambient clock are both good TC sources (without a recorder).

In a case like that, you would simply split the TC out, one going into your interface/Boom Recorder; the other would be somewhere accessible for jamming your slate.

-Brian

[Philip Perkins]

I either use a Denecke SB2 or the TC from a Sound Devices recorder as the TC source for my Metacorder (Traveler) rig. 

Philip Perkins

[Philip Perkins]

Thanks folks,

  Phillip, that bit about the file format was key. I didn't see that in the blurbs I was reading. I've been a happy Boom Recorder user for a while, but I was looking for something a little more substantial to have on the cart.

On a tangent note, anyone know how to get TC out of Boom Recorder if I wanted to jam a slate to it? I've been using the PD4 as a TC source, but if I wanted to do something without the DAT, I'd be in trouble...

Thanks,

Tom

More substantial in a HD stand alone recorder w/ 24 tracks is the Tascam MX2424, which can record in wave files, has full TC operations etc.  But substantial it is, in size, weight, power requirements and price.  It is not configured in any way for location/cart use, although I've seen them in music recording trucks.

Philip Perkins

[cmgoodin]

The Tascam X48 is now shipping for under $5000.  Gives you Full TC features and ext word-clock at all frame rates including Hi-Def and can record up to 48 tracks to the internal Hard drive or to an external Firewire or USB 2 disk.  Records broadcast Wav Poly format has full metering on the front panel and can be ordered with analog or a variety of Digital IO. Also has full waveform editing capability with an attached Keyboard and Monitor.  While it does have a built-in DVD+R drive it can not record or playback directly from disks in that drive.  It is used for lay-off of hard drive recorded files in a separate session. It also has GB Ethernet for access from a laptop or other workstation and can record in AAF Pro-Tools compatible files as well.

http://www.tascam.com/Products/x48.html

----Courtney

[Sergio Sanmiguel]

I used the Tascam MX2424 for a Music CD recording a while back. It was a great machine. Connecting with a Mac through the Ethernet cable was fast and easy with it's proprietary software. You can also open your sessions in Pro Tools so they are ready for delivery right there. The new X48 is only way better machine, they only lack on metadata.

[curleysound]

My understanding, after looking at the program again to make sure, is that Boom Recorder (v7.20 at least) makes its own time code. You can set it to TOD, Session, LTC SMPTE/EBU, and two Core Audio options. These generate without an external source, so my question is more of how can I get the internally generated TC from Boom Recorder out of the computer and into either my 01V96 (from the IEEE1394 connection), or an analog out (Headphones?), and secondly, how accurate is the code that Boom Recorder generates? Take?

Thanks,

Tom

[Darren]

I would not even consider relying on timecode that is generated by any software that is solely relying on Core Audio for it's clock timing.

Best,

Darren

[Jeff Wexler]

My understanding, after looking at the program again to make sure, is that Boom Recorder (v7.20 at least) makes its own time code.Thanks,

Tom

BoomRecorder can "make its own timecode" but as pointed out by several others this is not the way you want to go. Stop trying to figure out how to get a TC stream out of the software. Just get some good erxternal TC source (many are available) and use this to feed BoomRecorder AND jam your slate.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[curleysound]

That's unfortunate, but it all makes sense. I should look into a set of Denecke boxes, which shouldn't be tough as I live practically around the corner from them.

I would think that a digital TC generator would be at least as accurate as a TC box, although it just came apparent to me that I don't know how the boxes make TC either.

[studiomprd]

the Denecke GR-1 is a great little box for a master TC clock.

the time base (crystal) in a laptop (or typical desktop) is not accurate or stable enough for our typical needs.

[Darren]

CURLEYSOUND WROTE:

"I would think that a digital TC generator would be at least as accurate as a TC box, although it just came apparent to me that I don't know how the boxes make TC either."

Hi,

Not sure what a digital timecode generator is, but what you won't see in your MAC is a TXCO crystal.  The accurate timebase needs to come from hardware.  Software alone cannot accomplish this.

Cheers,

Darren

[Marc Wielage]

I would think that a digital TC generator would be at least as accurate as a TC box, although it just came apparent to me that I don't know how the boxes make TC either.

Jeff is right -- trying to use the Mac's internal clock as a reference for timecode is not a good idea. Either an Ambient or a Denecke crystal-controlled TC generator is the only way to go.

I went through this last year when I had to use Metacorder for two different products, and wound up going with the Denecke GR-1, simply because I liked the design. One caveat: I heard some timecode bleed in the analog inputs of the Yamaha 01X mixer we were using, so I opted to feed the timecode in to the Mac's own analog input. This is a delicate mini-phone jack, prone to getting bumped, but I was able to get a right-angled plug that was a little more rugged. You can get more info on this on the Metacorder user group on Google.

--Marc W.

[curleysound]

Moving the Software Timecode thing to another thread...