taylormadeaudio Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I was booming on a low-budget horror film called "Hobb's End"... it must have been about 10 years ago now. We were shooting in Sandpoint, ID, in December... lots of night EXT's... there was an awful flu bug that was making it's way through most of the crew (one guy had to be hospitalized)... It was nasty -- to this day, one of the hardest projects I ever worked on -- but there was a really strong sense of camaraderie as a result. Most of us were staying at small hotel in Sandpoint and just about every night, a bunch of us would gather in the room of one of the Grips and "imbibe" until the wee hours (perhaps why everyone was sick?) and we'd commiserate on the day's fucked-up'edness. It was always a good time -- the Sound Mixer, Nigel and I would play apple boxes like drums, there was usually a guitar, or someone would start free-stylin'... I'm sure we pissed a few hotel guests off at times -- we didn't care though -- we needed this 'unwinding' to maintain our sanity. Anyhow, one night after we'd been going strong for a while, it was starting to wind down (I think there might have even been some KGB present, if my memory serves me... (please look that one up on the Urban Dictionary site, if you're wondering... http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kgb&page=2 ...and the setting had turned into more of a conversational 'forum'. We somehow got on the topic of Sound vs. Camera (it was all very friendly though -- there wasn't any animosity or resentment.) At one point, one of the (non-sound) crew members, thinking they would put a definitive end to the debate, piped up and proudly stated, "Camera will always be more important than Sound -- In the beginning, God said,'Let there be light'"... well, you can imagine the response -- everyone laughed, and Nigel and I laughed along with them, and exchanged that familiar look of consolation, like "we know how valuable our contribution is, even if they don't"... So I sat there on my apple box, contemplating for a few moments... the room was getting quieter... and then it hit me -- I quite proudly stood up and announced the same quotation, with just a slightly different emphasis: "In the beginning, God SAID, 'Let there be light'"... The whole room erupted. We were laughing so hard, I couldn't breathe. I can't describe the feeling, but it was so funny the way everyone's faces lit up. I sat back down, licked my finger, and scribed a point in the air for Sound. Nigel and I always took pride in being the most invisible Sound team we could be -- our sense of diplomacy on set was really second to none (I have Nigel to thank for that) and we always tried to maintain the best relations we could with the other departments. The rest of that gig was no different -- except that I swear, our diplomacy was reciprocated just a little bit more. Here's to Sound: (quoting the great RVD)... "Cheers" ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSpector Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 The only thing that you can completely change after the movie been shot is your work, it could be thrown away, replaced and remixed . so let say , you are not so important , is just the money matters :-) MS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 The only thing that you can completely change after the movie been shot is your work, it could be thrown away, replaced and remixed . so let say , you are not so important , is just the money matters :-) MS Wow! Spoken like a true stuck-up camera guy... OK, (just for fun)... seriously, just for fun -- please don't take offense... or, do... I really don't care. Let's take a look at the truth and/or 'logic' behind what you're implying here: "The only thing that you can completely change after the movie been shot is your work..." Not true... in this digital age, there are many aspects of a production than can be changed after the fact -- Sound has always just been at the forefront of this process -- thus, making it easier on the other departments. That's how accommodating we are -- always thinking of the big picture and how our contribution helps... "..., it could be thrown away, ..." Sure, worst-case scenario... but at least not until it's imported and used in the post-production process for looping (which most people on either side of the equation hate, BTW... that's common knowledge.) Ever try ADR without a guide track? Ever try ADR, period? It sucks! Also, how much of what the Camera records is 'thrown away'? If we're talking percentages here, I'd venture to guess that a higher percentage of what we record as Sound Mixers makes it to the final product than what the camera records -- this is part of why Cameras (finally) went digital -- to save $ on all that film that was being wasted, going straight to the cutting room floor. : ) "...replaced and remixed ..." kind of like digital images are manipulated, replaced, CG'd... shit, Pixar proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't need a single stitch of live action imagery in a production -- even if they used MoCap initially -- guess what? -- it all got replaced! : ) The original production sound, on the other hand... hmmm, all used in the final product. : ) (sure, they're kid's movies, but they're still awesome... and there are plenty of movies intended for a broader audience that fit this bill as well... I just thought the Pixar movies would be a good example... since I suspect I'm replying to someone who might be a bit... childish. OH, SNAP!!! "...so let say , you are not so important , is just the money matters :-)" Spoken like someone with an extremely narrow-minded world-view... not even gonna try to explain how off you are here... casting pearls. Why does someone else have to be wrong in order for you to be right? Why does someone have to have a lower level of importance in order for someone else to have a higher level of importance? I'll be the first person to admit that my level of importance on any given job -- shit, even in life as a whole -- remains to be seen -- on a daily basis... but if you deliberately provoke me in an unwarranted attack, I'll turn into a pit-bull on crack -- I'll cloud up and storm all over you... but not in a mean way -- just a lion playing with a hyena's skull kinda way -- so let's say you go back to your camera forum and leave this one to the Soundies ; ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Heath Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Haha, finding the flaw in what was originally said was perfect. Thanks for the story. Touché Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Thank you, I'm here all week (at least until I get a call), don't forget to tip your servers... ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 <<The only thing that you can completely change after the movie been shot is your work, it could be thrown away, replaced and remixed.>> maybe that's why you are here, and not on some bigass producer on a private forum. ) about "God said.." well, i have used this line to effect quite often but a while ago. Maybe ten years back. But no claim to copyright on this from me! heh... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Yeah Vin, I also like the one about how you can watch a movie on a plane for free, but they charge for the headphones... or what was the other one?... "Ever see anyone walking out of a theater humming a two-shot?"... or something like that... Anyhow, I should probably explain that the only reason I even started this thread is because I was replying to Olle's post in another thread and didn't want to go off-topic too far. He had commented on my profile signature quote, and I thought it would be a nice story to share... no harm intended (at least not initially) ; ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Quinn Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Very nice story and a great line.If only my brain could remember these things. KGB Best John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 they say it affects one's short-term memory.... they say it affects one's short-term memory.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Yeah my friend ttaylor, and i DO feel more like i did when i got here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Laughter -- truly the best medicine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 " I'd venture to guess that a higher percentage of what we record as Sound Mixers makes it to the final product than what the camera records " consider they don't even count the takes they throw away without ever listening to them because they don't look good. and They don't call it The Picture of Music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 ...consider they don't even count the takes they throw away without ever listening to them because they don't look good... +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Thank you Tom that was a good read. I especially enjoyed the part with apple boxes for drums. These stories are still why I love this job so much. Getting to hear all these crazy creative therapy sessions is what it's all about. For me at least, that's half the reason I'm in the business. I'm still waiting for my Great Anecdote to happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymz Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 That was absolute quality, Mr.Taylor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSpector Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Wow! Spoken like a true stuck-up camera guy... OK, (just for fun)... seriously, just for fun -- please don't take offense... or, do... I really don't care. NO , But as i can assume i know much more about cameras . "The only thing that you can completely change after the movie been shot is your work..." Not true... in this digital age, there are many aspects of a production than can be changed after the fact -- Sound has always just been at the forefront of this process -- thus, making it easier on the other departments. That's how accommodating we are -- always thinking of the big picture and how our contribution helps... yes it could be change in parts or fragments after shoot , your work could;d be completely delited , replaced or not done at all and it will not influence on the product - you are the last in chain :-) "..., it could be thrown away, ..." Sure, worst-case scenario... but at least not until it's imported and used in the post-production process for looping (which most people on either side of the equation hate, BTW... that's common knowledge.) Ever try ADR without a guide track? Ever try ADR, period? It sucks! Also, how much of what the Camera records is 'thrown away'? If we're talking percentages here, I'd venture to guess that a higher percentage of what we record as Sound Mixers makes it to the final product than what the camera records -- this is part of why Cameras (finally) went digital -- to save $ on all that film that was being wasted, going straight to the cutting room floor. : ) Camera shots are always have been throw away for the best of the story , do you work on this 2 months or are you under 18 ?:-) the sound could be throw away completely ,not even one line of yore affort will stay inside , how about it ?:-) ADR - who need you , why waist 600 on your head while Pa can do the same for 50 :-) "...replaced and remixed ..." kind of like digital images are manipulated, replaced, CG'd... shit, Pixar proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't need a single stitch of live action imagery in a production -- even if they used MoCap initially -- guess what? -- it all got replaced! : ) The original production sound, on the other hand... hmmm, all used in the final product. : ) All used - hhhaha , the HOLLYWOOD SOUND? Dud , you are green , replaced and remixed - i hope that you are making hese speeches only INfront the mirror and not in front of your producer - ARE YOU TALKING TO ME ?:-) (sure, they're kid's movies, but they're still awesome... and there are plenty of movies intended for a broader audience that fit this bill as well... I just thought the Pixar movies would be a good example... since I suspect I'm replying to someone who might be a bit... childish. OH, SNAP!!! "...so let say , you are not so important , is just the money matters :-)" Spoken like someone with an extremely narrow-minded world-view... not even gonna try to explain how off you are here... casting pearls. Why does someone else have to be wrong in order for you to be right? Why does someone have to have a lower level of importance in order for someone else to have a higher level of importance? I'll be the first person to admit that my level of importance on any given job -- shit, even in life as a whole -- remains to be seen -- on a daily basis... but if you deliberately provoke me in an unwarranted attack, I'll turn into a pit-bull on crack -- I'll cloud up and storm all over you... but not in a mean way -- just a lion playing with a hyena's skull kinda way -- Pit bull on crack, these stupid dogs which been out of the low in some countries - i see you as Chuvava mostly , you are not important as you think you are , you are expandable , replaceable , not even one director will say no to production because they didn't hire you :-) so let's say you go back to your camera forum and leave this one to the Soundies ; ) you' re not a soundy ,you are what i call , self big image soundy , AND sorry for the late reply as had to finish , Carpaco, Caesar salad , 25 onz entriqueote and creme brule first, as it bad luck to answer newbuys on empty stomach . MS - ps Vin , the Bollywood is an excellent example how important the soundman , and why is it possible without :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSpector Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 By the way , i know the god in person , he is mute , so he never said it - he was ADRed :-) MS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Omg. Let there be silence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Heath Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Some one is trolling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSpector Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Some one is trolling The truth is sometimes unpleasant :-) MS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 The truth is sometimes unpleasant :-) MS We all know those bits. And we cope with them. But why would we want to see ourselves as expendable and useless? We should all just resign then I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSpector Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 We all know those bits. And we cope with them. But why would we want to see ourselves as expendable and useless? We should all just resign then I guess I never said that yore work or my work is useless ( and to original poster , i am older then you with probably more mixing hours and probably more years in the biz , i started in 85 :-)) , but as one department in the whale structure of movie making , we are the only department which could be eliminated completely on fiction . , Docu is something differnt , there we still have some points, even were have been kicked out from the news( biz as where budget problem , and the news did survived without us, so not sure if "real docu will show us the door as well as it been happen sometimes :-) So my point, is better shut up and less make waves about our importance as movies could be done without us , they couldnt done without camera ( light grip inside ) , art , actors and script write. Director , who knows if he will survive either in the future :-) You can see your self as the last of the Mohicans , in 20 years from now , our profession is not exist MS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Oleg is back. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSpector Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 And by the way , last time that i was speaking with god , not only he was mute but i could swear he was distorted as well , we replaced him with Steve Jobs voice :-) In the beginning, God SAID( ADRed by Steve Jobs ) 'Let there be MAC MS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Ms. Peckor, Granted, I've only been doing sound for 20 years, and I do not carry myself on set the same way I carry myself here on this wonderful forum... the forum is called JWSound, BTW... not JWCamera... and certainly not JWAssholes... your presence here is tolerated, and for as long as you care to spew out your foul garbage, I suppose there's a slim chance you might find someone that will empathize -- please just keep in mind before you post here: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." ~Abraham Lincoln You've pretty much removed all doubt at this point ; ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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