soundtrane Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Hi, I got a call from a friend who told me that a feature was looking for a sound mixer and i should get in touch with the director. I did that, the guy seemed ok, young, a little too excited. I came to know his funding was from UK and he was waiting to sign up the DP and some main actors after which he would sign me up. Later, i told him i cannot wait for too long, he has to give me dates and get me locked in since i had other projects to work on if his did not come through. He told me that he was going to start his music recording in November and by the third week he would have his funding available to sign me in and pay a signing fee. Two days ago, he wrote an email to me, DP and a possible line producer saying he needed some 6k USD to pay to "authorize" the funding transfers from UK. I said 'wha??' but then i put him on to a very experienced line/exec producer here in Bombay. Later in the evening my friend called me and said 'Vin, this whole thing seems dicy... Reeks of some scam, because your director has sent me some documents, and one of them says ANTI-TERRORIST FUND CLEARANCE CERTIFICATE. I came back home and checked on the net with exactly the words above, and all i got was website upon website about scams. I called this director and tried to tell him this, and also asked him a few questions, some of them that had already been asked before by my line producer friend. ME: "Did you ever meet with your financiers, film funders?" HIM: No, but i have had lots of phone conversations and emails exchanges with them. "Do you realize that you, as a first time director with not even a short film behind you are expecting someone to give you 2.5 mill USD for your film, and they and you have not even met physically, even once?" Listen, i have a new ATM card that they have sent me, that is loaded with .75 mill USD, and i have spoken to the bank people in the UK and the main person (a lady) who is going to be the actual producer. I need 6k USD to send to them. "Have you sent them any money already?" Yes, i have sent them 3k USD already, for the ANTI-TERRORISM FUND CLEARANCE CERTIFICATE. "Man, do you realize, no one asks you to pay money to give you more money? Don't you know about internet scams?" I have already got this ATM card, everything is going well, and soon I will have the money to pay you for your signing fee, you are already in the project, so don't worry. "Man, are you daft/stupid/a moron or what? I'm telling you that NO MONEY is going to come from the UK or anywhere else, you should be glad that I put you on to one of the most experienced line producers in India, and HE is saying this is not right..." [i get cut off by this guy and he says he will call me later, he is busy now...] Then i get some emails with attachments. One of them is here. ONE LOOK at this so-called certificate, and i can't believe someone can fall for this shit! I call him back, and when he responds, i tell him, "Call the line producer tomorrow morning, he will help you..." This morning, my line producer friend gets a call from this "director" and he tried to reason with him saying he has not heard of ONE instance in his 30 year career of a newbie getting 2.5 mill USD without the financiers ever meeting with the director even once. He then tells this guy - sorry, i am not interested in your project, you can go ahead and find someone else. I write this guy a long email, pointing out anomalies in the certificate, and email from the "banker" which says this ATM card can get him 100k USD in a day, and a mailer from the bank that shows the PIN number for the ATM card within the text of the letter but blanked out. I tell him to get his head out of his ass, try to look at things realistically and GO TO THE POLICE. I also tell him that I am NOT interested in his project because he is so pigheaded, and things too much of himself. As a saving grace, before contacting the actors and other people for his film, he should realize what he has gotten himself into and stop now before he embarrasses himself any further. He emails me back, "please don't write long email, i don't have the time to read. there are other sound people i can work with." Well, so i tell him to "GFY, and try and get his head out of his ass at least for a few minutes in a day". Oh, what can i say, all my attempts to make this price idiot, megalomaniac, 30 year old newbie were met with harshness. I don't know what else i can do, but i know this moron is going to find the 6k USD form somewhere and send it to "the financiers/producers" and is not going to get even 1.75 $ for an Indian McD burger from them. -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Waldron Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Why didn't you tell him you will also need money in advance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Don't rule out the fact he was in on the scam too..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 My first thought would be that this guy was part of (or was all of) the scam himself. My guess about what was going to come next: you working for a nothing now and a promise of a big payout later, or, better; him asking you to lend him some money so he can get his millions "cleared". You spent too much time with this guy, he's probably a crook. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 NO to everyone who posted so far. I am quite capable of figuring this out, and i tell you - The guy is incapable of thinking that far. He is a total newbie, trying to think of himself as a director, grandiose visions, etc... Just someone who has spent a few years in a studio setup (yes, there are a few out here) as an AD etc., thinks he is ready to make his big magnum opus, and somehow got himself stuck with these scamsters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Phil - I was offered a signing amount (which may amount to 25%) of the total, well before the shoot was to start. All this was happening in good faith, but once i got to know that he was looking for 6k USD to send to his so-called producer just to "release" funds, i smelt scam. This guy is a 30 yr old newbie, with some experience as an AD, etc. He spoke about being inspired by an Indian film maker's work, etc, and wanted to do something big. He even sent me a screenplay. I could only read about 10-12 pages of it because it was badly written, English language issues (which people can have, and yet express something good). I had not seen any of these "financial documents" until yesterday... The boy has been misled, but he wants to remain this way, and maybe send some more money to the scamsters. I did what i could, try to engage him with some sensible people, talk sense to him myself, but there is little more than this that i can do. Eventually, when he gets NO money from his 'financiers' he will get to know, but by then he would have probably sent off a few thousand $ which he is never gonna see again. Maybe then, he will realize what me and my line producer friend had been saying... -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 " a signing amount (which may amount to 25%) of the total, well before the shoot was to start. " That would be a huge red flag to me... that never really happens. " he would have probably sent off a few thousand $ which he is never gonna see again. " you said he has already sent them 3k USD already, for the ANTI-TERRORISM FUND CLEARANCE CERTIFICATE. and he is going to send more, if he can get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Most of the professional spam I receive these days, viagra and xanax not included, is film making stuff from India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 <that never really happens.> happens here and is possible. <Most of the professional spam I receive these days, viagra and xanax not included, is film making stuff from India. > curious to see some of it Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I'll dig it out and forward it to you Vin, it's interesting stuff, the scam isn't obvious to start with, but it's there.... I'll do it tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Jon, Redacted copies of these messages might prove helpful to the whole group, if you wouldn't mind sharing them with all of us. Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Vin, like you, I would of been done as soon as I read "needed 6K".... It seems pretty clear, at least to me... And a pre work signing amount... before the work started? That would of been the nail in the coffin.. The UNOG "form" or "certificate"... looks like something a high school student could make on his or her computer... Cheese, no chips... It states "delivered by seal of the united nation".... no S on Nations.... I don't think so... My bullsh-t meter goes nuts pretty fast on these things... To EVER send anyone money for something like this is, well, dumb... My dad used to say that those who do so pay for their learning... some pay over and over.... some folks never need to pay.... they come out of the womb educated in affairs such as these... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 I get so many crappy emails from the "international monetary fund" that it isn't even funny. That certificate looks so bogus. The font used for "anti-terrorist fund clearance certificate" is a dead give away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 This is just sad. I have a friend who was developing a film for the better part of a year, and got strung along for months by a guy who was (in actuality) a close relative of a very famous sports figure. Needless to say, no money ever appeared, and the movie never got made. I think one could make a good movie about a con artist who bilks a bunch of people out of money while promising to help them make a movie that doesn't really exist... sort of like The Producers, only applied to the movie world. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Sort of like this, but focused on hopeful filmmakers rather than investors: Federal Agents Arrest 11, Charge 18, in Independent Film Scam Published: June 17, 2011 @ 3:09 pm Federal authorities have charged 18 people in a boiler room scam, accusing them of bilking investors in indie films out of millions of dollars, the U.S. Attorney's Office said Friday. Rest of the story: http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/fbi-arrests-12-independent-film-scam-28354 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Ragon Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Thanks for posting this Vin. This was bound to happen.. to may naive producers out there. -Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 I have posted alerts about this guy on our local groups here in India. This guy is so belligerent that he now wants me to "go find a job somewhere else'. obviously i told him to bugger off. too bad, he does not know how deep in shit he is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 <And a pre work signing amount... before the work started?> Yes, i have been paid signing amounts of up to 25% up to two months before shoot in the past as well. Both were major features from big production houses. In other cases, generally, signing amounts of about 10-15% is not uncommon here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 " a signing amount (which may amount to 25%) of the total, well before the shoot was to start. " That would be a huge red flag to me... that never really happens. My biggest client, one of the largest independents in the UK always pay me a percentage on signing the contract, it's something I asked for on the first job I did for them, some years ago and they agreed. The percentage varies on each contract but it's usually 25 or 33% Unusual maybe, but no cause for a red flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 <And a pre work signing amount... before the work started?> Yes, i have been paid signing amounts of up to 25% up to two months before shoot in the past as well. Both were major features from big production houses. In other cases, generally, signing amounts of about 10-15% is not uncommon here. Crazy.... I can think of a hundred reasons why that would not work over here... maybe 200.... It would however ramp up work for unemployed "thugs" trying to get funds BACK from folks who were supposed to show up for gigs but are now in Cancun on holiday with their funds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 well, maybe there ain't so many thugs out here man... actually, maybe people at the level who do get 25% advance do have professional integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 well, maybe there ain't so many thugs out here man... actually, maybe people at the level who do get 25% advance do have professional integrity. You would hope so for sure.... It's basically a retainer... It's nice to know Thugs are not roaming your streets... wish it was true here.... sorry the whole thing crumbled though... but better now than later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 oh, not a regret really. I have other possible gigs, and with people who have secure funding. oh, there ARE thugs out here too. just that they are on my side... heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Yes, I am aware of retainers, aka signing fees, but not for (typically) production sound mixers. That is usually for folks above the line, working for a package price, with a % due on signing, or perhaps on commencement of work.. For me:" a red flag" that something is up, and asking me to front money is a solid coffin nail... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 For a large project, a few times, actually, I've received an advance -- I wouldn't call it a signing bonus. Not a red flag at all but a nice sign of good faith. And not out of line in return for me tying up a huge block of time for one client. Now, if they'd asked me to pay them something in order for me to get the advance, that's a sure sign of major fishiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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