Tony Johnson Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Hi , I just received this from a colleague who is one of the sound editors on the Hobbit . This method has been around for a while but this clip demonstrates the process very well and will be even more achievable on set with the "clapper " method . I have used the sweep recording on set before and we have used this on the Hobbit where we have been able to record the sweeps of sets we have just finished in before they are torn down for new ones but have found it difficult to get production to stop and wait for it on a shoot day . So maybe this clapper way is a big step forward . Check out the clip . Tony Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Thank you to sharing Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Cool. And if used in reverse, you could record some claps on location and then apply that profile to all the green screen sync sound dialogue recorded on stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymz Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Very cool stuff. Thanks for the link. I haven't used Altiverb since version 5, 7 looks wonderful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 AudioEase is a great company. They have some wonderful software, it's worth it to check out all their products. Snapper is one, Speakerphone is another. http://www.audioease.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I was introduced to this software by the guys at WB sound when I sat in on some post sessions on a movie I did a couple of years ago. There was a scene recorded in a room with some very unusual acoustics, and they had a terrible time matching for some added lines of dialog. They said if I am ever in a situation again in a room with particularly individual and unusual ecoustics, especially for a big scene, to get a couple of good stick slaps. On a later project I did just that. The ACs were in board, and geeked out getting a good loud slap for the purposes of mapping. Great technology. Thanks for the video share. Really unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Yeah, these impulse-response (IR) convolution reverbs can do a near-miraculous job at recreating a "real" space. I've played around with Waves' IR-L convolution reverb, and it's interesting what it can do with "dead"-sounding dialog (or close-miked lavs) and make them sound like they're in a medium-sized room. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Johnson Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 We have done a few atoms tracks on our location exteriors in forests and have had the AC clap the sticks 3 times at a couple of seconds apart . I should know soon if the Post guys could get altiverb to work with that , if so it makes a lot of sense to treat all atoms tracks and room tone like that and have claps on them . Happy Thanksgiving Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Used Altiverb extensively on my last feature... Lifesaver... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuhiva Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I always wonder what was all the buzz about convolution reverb, other than recreating the acoustic of nice musical recording studio or stage. But at the same time I always thought that we are supose to capture the driest signal possible, even on reverberant space (church....), the exemple showed on the video seems a little extreme... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I think the example/test recording was extreme by design --- demonstrating the features and function of Alteverb with a pleasant, normal room recording would not have been as dramatic. The master recording in the very live space probably would not be sound that one would want in a movie, nor something that one would want to match to, but it does serve to demonstrate the software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Also, while you might could get a good start on matching a fairly vanilla space with a slate clap, the room shooting that reverbs makers do (like Altiverb) to model real halls etc is much more involved than a single clap! phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Van Dyke Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Thanks for posting the demonstration, tj. I agree with Jeff, the demonstration is extreme by design, what's interesting to me is that using this program you can preserve the natural acoustics of the original room, which was reverberant to say the least and enhanced by using a boom type of microphone. This program, and it's ability to recreate the sound of the "room," is interesting because I would imagine that the large majority of folks here would have gone to a wireless lavalier, as a solution to the acoustics. If I understand the usage of the program, we could eliminate the lavalier choice and just record with a boom mic. That's great, however, our dailies would sound like the original recording in the demonstration, and we'd have lots of explaining to do, "Oh, just wait until we use the Altiverb!!" I'm not knocking the technology of this program in any way, I think it's incredible what it can do, I'm just suggesting that it wouldn't be that effective if the original recording had been done with a wireless lavalier mic. Where this technology seems like it might have a place is on shows/films with a lot of green screen work, and I would be very interested to hear a demonstration of it's use outdoors, as Laurence suggested. Cheers, Rich Van Dyke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Johnson Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I agree Rich about it being an extreme example but it has worked very well on other movies and the application we use it for is to match ADR for a couple of lines in a scene instead of ADRing the whole scene . we are using it outside but have yet to hear back if it's effective or not . The most interesting thing to me is that if it works well with a clap then we could record our room tones that way and it should make ADR match better . The feedback from Post has been that with quiet claps they can not get it to work and prefer a couple of claps at different perspectives . They say if we could use the sweep method the set does not have to be quiet , apparently the reverb works and it ignores extraneous noises . All good info to have . Yes I agree it would be difficult with a lav . Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 This program, and it's ability to recreate the sound of the "room," is interesting because I would imagine that the large majority of folks here would have gone to a wireless lavalier, as a solution to the acoustics. If I understand the usage of the program, we could eliminate the lavalier choice and just record with a boom mic. That's great, however, our dailies would sound like the original recording in the demonstration, and we'd have lots of explaining to do, "Oh, just wait until we use the Altiverb!!" Cheers, Rich Van Dyke Rich, I believe the nature of the software is to recreate reverb, not fix it. You are correct in that most of us wouldn't record a scene this way, but if we did, and a line or two required replacing, then Altiverb would recreate the same reverb to match the replaced or added lines to the original recording. So it would all sound equally bad and there'd still be some explaining to do if these tracks were turned in! Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BVS Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Thanks TJ....interesting... BV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinwebster Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I'm just suggesting that it wouldn't be that effective if the original recording had been done with a wireless lavalier mic. on the contrary, a good sweep recording through that lav/room/preamp combo may be good enough to get the ADR matching very closely, including the tonal balance of the direct signal as well as any reflections from the room. Obviously the real world isn't that perfect but even a few good claps can get us a very believable room reverb that will help a lot to sell the ADR. as TJ mentioned, the sweep technique is unbelievably tolerant of background noise. I'm just in awe of how much noise this method can handle: constant, tonal stuff mixed with dense rumble, loud drips in a cave reverb and buzzing flies. it's a 'side effect' of the mathematical technique used that the resulting Impulse Response has a insanely large dynamic range and most noise just falls away. voodoo. so if any of you guys think you can get away with running sweeps, you should go for it. the Tivoli+iPod seems like a good little setup, especially if they've sampled the response of that speaker. When I finally get a chance I'll put TJs clapper recordings thru the AV7 beta and report back here how it works out. cheers, justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinwebster Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 the feedback from Post has been that with quiet claps they can not get it to work and prefer a couple of claps at different perspectives. basically, the clapper board support is new to AV7 (still in beta) so we're not sure how tolerant it is of lighter claps. as you guys know the light, actor friendly claps sound quite different and till now AV has relied on pistol shots so we're assuming a juicy clap is best both for tonal balance of the direct signal and for setting off the reflections. remains to be seen what we might be able to extract from the actual slates from the takes but it may be useful for very live spaces. justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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