Car Mic Setup

[Brian Maier]

Ive got two films coming up that are both gonna require in car miking with the windows down while driving.  I had planned on using my Schoeps CMC641 with Cut and GVC along with lavs, but after reading about different setups there are a number of people that seem to like the Schoeps BLM 03 on the headliner.  Can I get some opinions/thoughts on the two options?  Is the BLM noticeably better then a 641/cut/gvc sound wise or is it just easier to mount?

[Jeff Wexler]

I am not a big fan of the ANY of the boundry layer, pressure zone type microphones, even the BLM from Schoeps. I know Art Rochester, and probably others, have used the BLM quite successfully I am told, in doing car shots. I also have heard reports of people having success with the Sanken CUB-1, not technically a boundry layer mic but does share some similar characteristics. I have not had good results in cars with either. My preference for interior car work is always a standard Schoeps CMC-MK41 often with the GVC in place (but rarely with the CUT-1). The decision to put the mic mounted low or high is made based on a number of factors, most prominently being where you can actually put the mic to be out of picture for multiple angles. With the windows down the challenge is obviously greater (wind protection for the mic, increased background noise, etc.) and at times the open mic technique has to be abandoned in favor of lavs on the actors. As we all know, the lavs will create probably as many problems as they solve, but we all know by now that most all of our work is a series of compromises.

Since the easy availability of multitrack recording now there is the possibility of multiple techniques being applied to any scene. Although requiring more work setup wise, and the inevitable lack of focus you will be able to apply to each of the techniques you employ, this is a valid approach: plant mics (open mic technique) and lavaliers (body mics) on their own tracks for the whole scene. Your choice for the "mix track" (I still hate that term but I will get over it) should be whichever technique seems to be yielding the best sound --- then you concentrate on mixing that.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[RPSharman]

Windows down makes a boundry mic or CUB-01 from above a fairly bad scenario.  It picks up road noise.  Going from below with an MKH50 or Schoeps I found to be much better.  Lavs on the actors works if seatbelts and wardrobe aren't an issue, but I don't like doing it.

I have had good luck with a lav over each actor on the headliner with a Rycote sticky and wind gag.  It helps road noise, and often sounds surprisingly good.

Cars have weird acoustics, and if you have the time, like Jeff suggests, I'd do as many of the above as you have time for and pick your favorite.

[greg sextro]

i recently did a job on a process rig with two actors in the back of a cab.  i lav'd the actors, but also mounted a cub-1 to a small piece of plexi and mounted that to the roof of the cab.  with the windows down, i thought the cub sounded surprisingly good and had very few wind problems just using the standard foam it comes with...now maybe i got lucky...i had thought about mounting a cmc6/mk41 with gvc in the car, but they were running four cameras simultaneously, so it just seemed sort of problematic to me to find a good place for it.

the psc flexi-mount wound be pretty good i'd think to attach your mount to a visor:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=354204&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

also, you should think about how fast the car will be moving.  maybe i got lucky with the cub-1 because we were traveling pretty slow.

[bcopenhagen]

Since the easy availability of multitrack recording now there is the possibility of multiple techniques being applied to any scene.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

I once recorded a scene in a car in which we used 7 microphones.  There was an approach from outdoors (boom), followed by a page+ of dialog in which BOTH actors turned their heads toward the side windows at some point AND an affectionate hug at the end.  I think it was 2 Schoeps MK41s down low + overhead lavs favoring the sides on each of them + one more in the center for the hug at the end.  Maybe just 6 mics...but it sounded very nice, albeit seemingly overkill.

We were lucky that it was a drive-up and then sit there, so much less complicated than a moving car.

I think there is no single technique that you can employ every time, but I think overhead lavs might be as effective as a BLM, in many cases.  Definitely make sure you put enough windscreenage.

-Brian

[Brian Maier]

but we all know by now that most all of our work is a series of compromises.

But but but...

Ive looked at the lavs as a fall back option, but have never been that satisfied they just pick up too much.  The mk41 has been good when its been possible to utilize.  Just looking for some more options.

[curleysound]

The Colette cable makes hiding the MK41 a lot easier. It's the most expensive cable I've ever purchased, but well worth it for this kind of thing. Some of them even have a 90 degree angle on them which is useful for aiming some times...

Tom

[Philip Perkins]

It seems like the car stuff I end up on is done in such a mad rush that I feel like I have to have something like the CUB1 up even if it's a convertible, let alone hard top w/ windows down, if only as a bail-out.  W/ windows down I too have gotten best results w/ MK41 or 4 on magic arms etc, but the rig is fiddley and even a small change of heart on framing, let alone a hand held rig can suddenly bring the mic into the shot and they want to go NOW.  Production people often assume that the actor's lavs will work in the car, so it isn't a terrible idea to leave them on, but we all know how lav-unfriendly any car setup is.  The other issue of course is that in this situation where a lot of options might be a good idea you may very well be expected to really skinny your rig down.  The only camera car still based in the SF area that I know of is far too small to bring a whole sound cart onto--they expect you to work in the cab (on that infamous 12x9" "sound shelf") or where ever if that place has been colonized by video assist or a client/producer who doesn't want to sit out in the wind (it happens).  My current personal best car sound was for a Prius spot w/ Steve Young and a sidekick--windows up, wireless car-to car  w/ 2 CUB1s.  Quiet car, plenty of level from actors, windows up, and a roof console that gave nice separation to the CUBs (split to separate tracks).  The spot is still running.  I see that on real movies the sound people often get their whole (vertical) cart on the rig: good on them and the grips who help them.  Recently someone here opined that they didn't bother wiring from car to recorder anymore--they did it all w/ wireless to avoid HMI ballast feeders EVERYWHERE (especially across the hitch) and for speed.  This is a great idea, folks.

Philip Perkins

[old school]

Hey All, greetings. I think that with car rigs, all mic techniques are all valid and I have tried most if not all combinations with mixed results, but I always got paid, so... I think the key factor for usable sound is staying ahead of the rigging and how the shot/shots are going down on any given rig. It is always a cluster fuck as Phillip points out, and options are key but also easier now with multi- tracks, but the rigging and execution of shots doom more sound tracks than any other factor in my opinion. So be a friend of all departments and be there so they only have to rig once, and your percentage of good tracks on car rigs will go up. B.T.W., 95% of the car shots I've recorded is with a MK41 or two. Also ask Steve Morrow for a few tips, his shots in "L.M.S.S" are about as hard as they come.

CrewC

[FSBELLA]

hey guys,

a few years ago, I remember renting the schoeps colette w/41 cap & gvc swivel. it was used  in the visor. now even just yesterday, a commercial sound mixer rented 2 cub-1's

for a car shot. its funny, I still get a 50-50 feed back responce on the cubs (maybe it was the way they were rigged), and the schoeps always works.

[Bartek]

When it comes cars I definitivley think less is more. As discribed above they always are stupid setups, and NOW, NOW, NOW, is all you hear! I opt for a single MK41 to cover the front (driver and passanger) it makes a life a lot easer with regard to phase coherency. But it all depends off course, If I work in a big 'ol american car I'll perhaps wip out two 41's if the 3 to 1 rule permitts it. And I always try to go hardline into the car. If you plan your cable run carefully and coordinate it with the boys in electric you should have no problems. but again nothing is written in stone in this line of work.

Cheers,

Bartek

[Guest Mick]

The last car rig we did was something like: 2 actors wired with Sankens with custom made wind rigs (you'd have to threaten my boom man Kenny's life before he told you that secret), plus two MK 41s in the visors on collette cables and a planted Sanken on a head rest for a scripted head turn to someone in the back seat. Everything on Lectro wires with my batwing antennas rigged to the back of the insert car cab. And, of course, me in the cab with the heater on and mixing directly to the Deva V using the front panel knobs and virtual faders. We usually take a whole Lectro receiver rack mount into the cab and either a block battery or just the 9 volts into the receivers. My 2nd boom guy Brian, who is leaving me this year for commercial pastures, has this down to a science. If I may, let me take the opportunity in this forum to wish him good luck and thank him publicly for five years of outstanding work and support. He's left some big shoes to fill. Third guys like Brian Whooley are worth their weight in gold and whoever gets to work with him (Mo and Crew??) will be fortunate indeed.

[old school]

Hey Mick, thanks for the kind words about Bryan, he's a hard working young man and learned a great deal from you and Kenny. I work with Marydixie 99% of the time, but when I do get a chance to work with Bryan, I promise not to screw up all his good training. Also keep us updated as to the progress of your film.

CrewC

[Roger Slater]

On a recent film, we had a Lexus  on a rig and I used a Sanken CUB01 stuck in the centre of the 'radio/satnav' LCD display screen  in the middle of the dash panel. Two actors in the front seats, two cameras on the insert car, great results. Audio 2020 back to the cab, Audio rack off 12V into DEVA. I always use radio link in this situation for the reasons everyone else has given-speed of rig and derig, lack of cables to hide and  be guillotined by the tow hitch.....

I used open mikes for years, rigged on magic arms, but there always used to be some sort of rigid frame under the front seats to fix to. Modern cars are just a sea of floppy gray plastic.

Regards

Roger S

Malvern  UK              "Good, Quick, Cheap. Pick any two.."

[tim apter]

The CUB is great, but as eveyone says it sure can be hit or miss sometimes with that mic! I mainly work in EFP/run n gun environments, and I think this is where the CUB totally shines - easy rig, much better sound than the client expected (especially for shooting front to back type setups). For dramatic work, I think the hyper card/card approach is great, and usually better than anything else.

[berniebeaudry]

A real quick and fairly easy to rig setup I did a long time ago involved a Schoeps colette w/omni cap & gvc swivel mounted on the suction cup mount that Schoeps makes.  I secured the mic mount to the arm rest between the seats with gaff tape and then put the end cap of my zeppelin over the mic for wind protection.  Probably used gaff tape to secure that as well.  At least one window was open and come to think about it I may have use the cardiod capsule instead of the omni, but its been so long I don't remember.  I do recall it worked fairly well though.

Bernie

[Fernando]

the suction cup mount that Schoeps makes

Bernie

Never heard about it.

It was made by Schoeps for shure?

BTW, I found a small and light suction cup (about 5 or 6cm diameter, $25) made for small digital cameras that it's perfect for Schoeps CCM mics, maybe good for MK capsules too. Easy to find in photo stores.

[berniebeaudry]

The company I worked for at the time had the entire Schoeps collete kit that did include that suction cup mount.  Of couse the suction cup part didn't work on the cloth arm rest, but it was nice and light and easy to gaff to the arm rest and put the mic at just about the right height.  You could really use about anything that positions the mic right. I do remember it picked up the dialogue between the two people pretty well.  If you had someone in the back seat it should pick them up too.  Acoustics in a car are weird so try different capsules to see what works best.

Bernie

[Don Barto]

I have a TV travel series coming up this fall in which a whole lot of dialog needs to happen in a moving open convertible — just the driver and a passenger up front.  Did some mic tests on the road earlier this week.  Hidden Trams are workable, but looking into it a little deeper I was surprised at how much rumble I got from a k6/ME66 hand-held in a pistol grip with a Rycote softie.  Didn't get to try anything properly mounted up on a visor — next time out.  Anything else I might try?  I am expecting that whatever I do needs to be "invisible" on a wide over-the-shoulder shot from the back seat.  Frontal shots of the actors will be from a second car and from a lipstick camera mounted somewhere in or on the first car.

[Fernando]

Well, omnis can stand some more wind than directionals... don't know about how fast that convertible will go...

One thing I would try (if I could) would be a DPA lavaliere omni with a good lavaliere windjammer (I have the MicroCat, but there's also a Rycote that's bigger and maybe more efficient. Thare's also another one I can't recall now) But some borne noise isolation will be needed. This is the smallest I can imagine now.

The 4060 is 20mV/Pa, very sensitive, so it can be farther away and with the windjammer. The high boost grid may be useful to compensate for the windjammer.

Just an idea...

Maybe the Osix for a Schoeps CCM pair in MS may stand the vibration? (not released yet, afaik)

That would be another -bigger- option and that would be harder to hide, wich will make you place the MS pair somewhere non ideal for dialog pickup...

I like the lavaliere idea using the more sensitive 4060 because the lavs+windj. could be on plain sight without being -too- noticeable, so it can be there all the time, from the start.

One problem comes to mind... stereo compatibility... this would be two spaced omnis...

why they never think in sound when planning?