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Booming with different distances in the same take - do or don't?


Jesper Magnusson

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This is a situation I've come across now and then, that I've always been a bit unsure about. If you are booming two people having a discussion in a shot, sometimes you are able to get closer to one than the other - they might have different distances to the camera, one is significantly taller than the other, or maybe one is standing while the other is sitting down.

In cases such as this, should you still get as close as you can for each position, and let post deal with differences in level, tonality, BG etc, or should you try to keep an equal distance from them to make things more balanced?

Thanks in advance!

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I try to find a middle space between the two for minimum swing. The mkh8060 is very forgiving off axis. Or switch to something like mkh50 mkh4060 or schoeps mkh41 even out doors.

And always LAV //

This is a situation I've come across now and then, that I've always been a bit unsure about. If you are booming two people having a discussion in a shot, sometimes you are able to get closer to one than the other - they might have different distances to the camera, one is significantly taller than the other, or maybe one is standing while the other is sitting down.

In cases such as this, should you still get as close as you can for each position, and let post deal with differences in level, tonality, BG etc, or should you try to keep an equal distance from them to make things more balanced?

Thanks in advance!

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In my opinion, I'd try and get as close to both as possible. I would hate to sacrifice quality sound on one person for BG or balance, just because the other is farther away from the mic. If only one character is sitting down, that character will probably be looking up at the other character, that could help. Same with a tall person situation. I've been taught to give the best recording possible for every single line of dialogue. You can always hope for coverage. And if you don't get it, most post people could easily level the two out if they needed to.

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I agree! Get as good as possible. You never know when you'll get a shot again and that shot might be more problematic than the previous one. If the differences are crazy mad you could try and find a middle ground. But generally, take all the chances you can of getting close. Trust your ears and your decisions. There's no right way

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IMHO getting close is not always the best solution and not needed if the background is not noisy,

Reminds of a time when I argued with a big Mexican TV network people about how close should MKH60 be.They were telling me it is a common practice to have it close to the forhead. Hallo comb filtering...

IMHO balance between the 2 voices is a lot more important then capturing only one voice very good.

In my opinion, I'd try and get as close to both as possible. I would hate to sacrifice quality sound on one person for BG or balance, just because the other is farther away from the mic. If only one character is sitting down, that character will probably be looking up at the other character, that could help. Same with a tall person situation. I've been taught to give the best recording possible for every single line of dialogue. You can always hope for coverage. And if you don't get it, most post people could easily level the two out if they needed to.

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Reminds of a time when I argued with a big Mexican TV network people about how close should MKH60 be.They were telling me it is a common practice to have it close to the forhead. Hallo comb filtering...

Hmm, I hadn't really thought about comb filtering occuring from reflections on the face itself. Is this actually a noticable effect? If it is, I think it would be more a matter of what angle you use (which to a certain degree also affects distance). Pushing to far towards the top of the head would generally be a no no for me as you quickly loose the more directional higher frequencies.

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Ah, this is why good boomers are so important, and get paid well --and are worth it! It also goes to booming and mixing at the same time..the result really being that all the mixing is being done by the booming itself.

the simple answer to the original question is, of course: it depends...

there are a number of factors, including the image composition, and the perspective of sound.

No one answer fits all situations.

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Knowing filmmaking and understanding coverage and editing goes a long way toward answering this question on set.

If it's a 2-shot or a master or the only coverage, then blend it.

If it's a particular person's coverage, and you suspect the other audio on the other person might not be used for editorial purposes, the go for the "better" audio.

Only experience can tell you which is which.

Robert

P.S. And don't just lav everyone for no reason. That's silly. Actors on more mainstream shows won't have much patience for that.

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Nothing to do with reflections on the face.

It has to do with the design of the microphone.

Hmm, I hadn't really thought about comb filtering occuring from reflections on the face itself. Is this actually a noticable effect? If it is, I think it would be more a matter of what angle you use (which to a certain degree also affects distance). Pushing to far towards the top of the head would generally be a no no for me as you quickly loose the more directional higher frequencies.

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Knowing filmmaking and understanding coverage and editing goes a long way toward answering this question on set.

If it's a 2-shot or a master or the only coverage, then blend it.

If it's a particular person's coverage, and you suspect the other audio on the other person might not be used for editorial purposes, the go for the "better" audio.

Very true - I always try to study storyboards in advance to determine what part of the dialogue is most important during a specific shot. The original question was more geared towards if there would not be any editing, so it's one shot, two people talking, possible to have different booming distances.

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No matter how much you prepare, how much you read in advance, plan or think, the live situation will always, Always be something different and bring new surprises. For better or worse, planning ahead is what I've learned is what, using Jedi terms, "clouds the mind". Being there is simply, for me anyway, the best solution.

Like mark said, be prepared for ANYTHING! Bring every piece of equipment, plugs, cable, tape, thing, gizmo, gadget you possibly can think of that will be in excess, because that one day in that one shot in that one situation, you could need it.

Studying storyboards is the same thing; No matter how hard a Dp and director has planned ahead and thought of every possible frame, there will be new problems that the storyboard couldn't convey. The only thing I ever study (and i study it loosely) before a shoot is the script and shooting schedule. The rest is just due to change, really. Hell everything is due to change on set. You can't prepare for that.

It always depends, and if you've prepared a lot and know the script, what the storyboard looks like, how many shots are in this scene and so forth, the only thing that ever comes of it is annoyance at the fact that it never matches, always changes and is never ever consistent.

So my motto now is just: be there. I never ever leave the camera position, I always know the framing of this particular shot and I treat it as the only shot every time... Sometimes ;P

And I don't overly prepare cus it will only make me disappointed.

We are all different and we should all work the way we want, this is just my point of view and I don't mean to say any other person's way is wrong.

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All the input is great food for thought, but the only way you'll learn is by years of experience. Everything really does depend upon something else which depends upon something else. How you work that balance is the part you only learn with years of experience.

Beware of the beginner's curse: As you start to acquire knowledge, there will come a point where your ego will tell you that "Hey, I really know this stuff. Look at me and look what I know!" That's the danger point. It's only when you've put in enough years that you're constantly learning how much you DON'T KNOW, that you're finally STARTING to learn it. I find this is true in pretty much any field.

And, nix on the laving everybody. Certainly not with a feature. If it's reality TV, then sometimes it's the best way. But, again, it depends. So, that tells you one thing: Beware of hard and fast rules. This is a dynamic business and your approach requires that you be dynamic in your techniques and problem solving as well.

However, if you want a simple answer: Make 'em both sound great.

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Hmmm. I would swear that I posted on this topic last night. Maybe I didn't hit post or something. Maybe I was edited. It was a well composed reply and not at all out of line. A very thought provoking post IMHO.;~) Oh well......

John B's reply will be my plus 1. Very good advise. My only addition was my lament from last night that I wish we had more full time boom ops here and that they were active in discussions like this one and we could have more threads on booming.

CrewC

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Yes Crew. I saw your post last night.

Hmmm. I would swear that I posted on this topic last night. Maybe I didn't hit post or something. Maybe I was edited. It was a well composed reply and not at all out of line. A very thought provoking post IMHO.;~) Oh well......

John B's reply will be my plus 1. Very good advise. My only addition was my lament from last night that I wish we had more full time boom ops here and that they were active in discussions like this one and we could have more threads on booming.

CrewC

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Beware of the beginner's curse: As you start to acquire knowledge, there will come a point where your ego will tell you that "Hey, I really know this stuff. Look at me and look what I know!" That's the danger point. It's only when you've put in enough years that you're constantly learning how much you DON'T KNOW, that you're finally STARTING to learn it. I find this is true in pretty much any field.

I've had this curse a few times in other fields, and it's truly dangerous. Nowadays I never assume I'm right and know everything. Every time I'm on set is a reminder of that :)

Old School: Sorry I missed your post. I agree though that there should be more threads on booming!

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OK like a lot of folks out there I float between being a Boomie and mixer. When doing drama I find booming more enjojable. (will put a who am I up one day soon)

When swinging that pole to capture all those words, sighs, breaths, beautiful and annoying sounds the cast (hopefully not crew) make, there are a few things I try to keep in mind.

Keeping a consistency in levels, or mixing with the boom. Often you will have a quiet speaker next to a loud speaker, favour the quiet one. Would help if the loud one was deeper in the BG. Moving in for quiet dialogue and out for louder dialogue. Essentially the booms position is your fader.

Keeping a consistency in BG. Sometimes it is better to have someone on the edge of the pattern then in the sweet spot of the mic in order to keep the BG similar for both (all) characters dial.

At times it is about you can physically get with out risking the dialogue that is key to the shot. Mixers want everything, but will usually understand when you say 'I can't get so and so line with out risking the hero characters line. It ok they are off screen' or the likes.

Understand the coverage. Constantly eavesdrop to find out what has changed and is coming up as more often then not you won't be told.

And everything that Robert said above.

In a way I feel Boomies and focus pullers have the most fun and stressful jobs on set.

Not sure if I addressed your question at all, but hey it is a Saturday afternoon, I have the day off and may have had one to many beers.

Enjoy Nate...

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Very true - I always try to study storyboards in advance to determine what part of the dialogue is most important during a specific shot. The original question was more geared towards if there would not be any editing, so it's one shot, two people talking, possible to have different booming distances.

Yes, if it's one shot then blend, IMO. Also good advice above. Keep background noise consistent. Don't pan mic back and forth in and out of background noise. That goes for a whole scene too.

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FWIW, my personal practice is usually to ask boom to cover everything 100% first take (barring a believable rehersal) and if they tell me they can't cover both, I usually say "cheat towards the sitter and split the difference and I should be happy enough." This assuming I'm working with one of my trusted few, and not an unfamiliar boom. Even balance is best for me, assuming no wires and making the boom work. Camera just bones us plenty and I feel we have to make the shot work minute to minute above all else.

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