samsound Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 OK Jeff – firstly,you made your case eloquently, as always, in your earlier post, and my remark about adverse comments were not directed at you. You have always been open-minded and equable. You said “If by "negative comments" you mean other professionals questioning the use or non-use of headphones or expressing their opinions on this, that's what this thread is all about --- here and on r.a.m.p.s. in the past.†I absolutely agree -when it is a discussion, and not comments such as “Booming w/o headphones is just as stupid when done by an experienced award winner as it is when done by a beginnerâ€. Together with the responses of some others implying that somehow wearing cans is the only, sensible way. The implication being that those that don’t are somehow lacking, oddball or even not truly professional. The point I was trying to make is that we are not dummies who are locked in some archaic methodology and need to be converted to the path of light – we do things in different ways, for many, and our own, reasons. You may be baffled, bemused and frankly gobsmacked that anyone may choose not to work as you do. I say again, diff’rent strokes for diff’rent folks. “Booming w/o headphones is stupid. Yes, I know old Brit movies were done this way back in the day, and they also did a lot of ADR. “ What evidence Phillip do you have for this statement? Do our movies of, say, the sixties have lesser soundtracks than you were achieving at the time in Hollywood? Do you know how much original production sound was replaced? Are you saying that the ADR was because of the non-wearing of headphones? I do know that those trained by the BBC in their Film Department were producing soundtracks utilising a very high amount, even 100% useable original sound .This was necessitated by budgetary restrictions and the over-riding philosophy was “get it good, get it right, get it original†The reputation of British Sound was then, and I believe still is ,held in high regard by many of our international colleagues. Many of those BBC soundmen have gone on to have productive and successful careers in Features. They all started as Boom Operators who learned their craft without headphones. We have great Boom Operators and some not-so-great ones – but not wearing headphones isn’t the reason they are less than great! As Oleg has said, the great ones are perhaps “the natural born ones†I confess I am now baffled – how come in my more than forty years is it that we do so consistently well, and find no particular disadvantages in working without headphones? Have we misguidedly been ‘bumbling along’ in happy ignorance? It certainly isn’t because we have ‘always done it that way’ – we have been very quick to adopt, adapt to, and sometimes even introduce new technology and methods. We are not ‘Luddite’ and would, I’m sure, have taken to headphones if we had felt they provided advantages over our existing way of working. I’m sure that headphones are an increasing necessity, not so much so that the Boom Op can assess quality but for communication and trouble-shooting. Personally, I have no strong feelings either way – should I work with a Boom Op who wanted to wear cans I’d have no objections, neither would I require him to work without. What I would expect is that he is a first-class Boom Op, and there I have been very fortunate. The danger with this topic is that it can descend into a ‘them and us’ scenario, with nit-picking and point scoring. The bottom line is that some of us do things differently, what you do is fine by me, neither party is ‘right’, neither ‘wrong’. I have just stated how I, and many this side of the pond, work. Fraternal regards Mutt n’Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 OK Jeff – firstly,you made your case eloquently, as always, in your earlier post, and my remark about adverse comments were not directed at you. You have always been open-minded and equable. The danger with this topic is that it can descend into a ‘them and us’ scenario, with nit-picking and point scoring. The bottom line is that some of us do things differently, what you do is fine by me, neither party is ‘right’, neither ‘wrong’. I have just stated how I, and many this side of the pond, work. Fraternal regards Mutt n’Jeff I agree this is the danger, 'them vs. us' which was never really anyone's intention. I would like to see this topic take a rest, ending for now with the understanding, for all of us, that there is NOT an absolute right or wrong, far from it, and things are done differently all over the world (and even on the same set by different people). I think we all have learned a few things from this discussion but let's retire it for now. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Dig that. If it works for the shot, if it works for the project, if it works for you, then it works. No mas He said/She said. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samsound Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Jeff and Old School - I agree,and am happy to see an end to it. Vive la difference! Mutt n' Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 “Booming w/o headphones is just as stupid when done by an experienced award winner as it is when done by a beginnerâ€. Together with the responses of some others implying that somehow wearing cans is the only, sensible way. The implication being that those that don’t are somehow lacking, oddball or even not truly professional. The point I was trying to make is that we are not dummies who are locked in some archaic methodology and need to be converted to the path of light – we do things in different ways, for many, and our own, reasons. You may be baffled, bemused and frankly gobsmacked that anyone may choose not to work as you do. I say again, diff’rent strokes for diff’rent folks. “Booming w/o headphones is stupid. Yes, I know old Brit movies were done this way back in the day, and they also did a lot of ADR. “ What evidence Phillip do you have for this statement? Do our movies of, say, the sixties have lesser soundtracks than you were achieving at the time in Hollywood? Do you know how much original production sound was replaced? Are you saying that the ADR was because of the non-wearing of headphones? I do know that those trained by the BBC in their Film Department were producing soundtracks utilising a very high amount, even 100% useable original sound .This was necessitated by budgetary restrictions and the over-riding philosophy was “get it good, get it right, get it original†The reputation of British Sound was then, and I believe still is ,held in high regard by many of our international colleagues. Many of those BBC soundmen have gone on to have productive and successful careers in Features. They all started as Boom Operators who learned their craft without headphones. We have great Boom Operators and some not-so-great ones – but not wearing headphones isn’t the reason they are less than great! As Oleg has said, the great ones are perhaps “the natural born ones†I confess I am now baffled – how come in my more than forty years is it that we do so consistently well, and find no particular disadvantages in working without headphones? Have we misguidedly been ‘bumbling along’ in happy ignorance? It certainly isn’t because we have ‘always done it that way’ – we have been very quick to adopt, adapt to, and sometimes even introduce new technology and methods. We are not ‘Luddite’ and would, I’m sure, have taken to headphones if we had felt they provided advantages over our existing way of working. I’m sure that headphones are an increasing necessity, not so much so that the Boom Op can assess quality but for communication and trouble-shooting. Personally, I have no strong feelings either way – should I work with a Boom Op who wanted to wear cans I’d have no objections, neither would I require him to work without. What I would expect is that he is a first-class Boom Op, and there I have been very fortunate. The danger with this topic is that it can descend into a ‘them and us’ scenario, with nit-picking and point scoring. The bottom line is that some of us do things differently, what you do is fine by me, neither party is ‘right’, neither ‘wrong’. I have just stated how I, and many this side of the pond, work. Fraternal regards Mutt n’Jeff The evidence that a lot of those films were ADR'ed is right on the screen--you can hear the unnaturalness of the dialog re the space the actors are in. British films are not alone in this, many American and other nationalities' large films were done this way--it is how everyone worked given the limitations of the equipment and what the producers wanted. In that scenario then having a boom op wear headphones might be superfluous. Meanwhile, here in 2007, with a MUCH higher level of complexity of location sound and its equipment, hugely larger ambitions for the production track, far less time on the set devoted to sound set up and rehearsal and an assumption that more technology (ie wireless and multitrack) will always be better for the show I need all my people LISTENING to what we are doing all the time. An experienced boom op (of any nationality) can probably pull off a good scene w/o cans a lot of the time, given a cooperative DP, gaffer and AD and a set that has had some consideration for sound incorporated into its preparation. How often does the above chracterize the situations we work in now? Not very often. Even if I can't get a boom into the shot I need my boom op (often the only other member of the sound dept. besides me) listening to the lav mix or whatever to be ready to make adjustments w/o being told to. I need them to have headphones so I can communicate with them DURING shots about changes in the framing I see on my monitor--often changes not seen in a rehearsal, since we are probably shooting the rehearsal (love video!). I also need them to have talkback to me so they can quickly tell me about changes in a low tone of voice between shots w/o reeling in the boom mic and talking down a channels that everyone w/ Comteks hears. (I do not understand statements about an experienced boom op knowing the "sweet spot" of directional mics at all--beyond a general pattern that sweet spot is VERY dependent on the acoustics of the room, small details of the actor's position relative to the mic and what interfering noise (camera etc) the boom op needs to be minimising all the while.) I know you guys have made lots of movies w/boom ops w/ no headphones. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the advantage of working this way is over having a hifi monitoring system for everyone working on the production sound of a shot. (I am not, by the way, a newbe at this. 32 years this year.) Philip Perkins CAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Brandon Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 If you don't wear some big honkin' boom-op headphones when going to get a snack, they will ask you to empty the trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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