SiliconAudioLabs Posted May 6, 2007 Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 Yeah yeah I know, here we go again... I bring curtains but the DP's don't want them in the way of the action. I use lavs and a Schoeps CMIT5 simultaneously, which is about the best shotgun to suck out the room, yet still the verb is there. It's workable (I'll take it down with some downward expansion), but again still not quite "dry". <sigh> Anybody have any other ideas on how to tame the green tub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted May 6, 2007 Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 How about a short schoeps (or I use an MKH50) at close range? If it's all green screen, you can be in frame. I like a short mic at close range in a "live" room. Mixing in lavs can help, as you said, if you don't have wardrobe issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartek Posted May 6, 2007 Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 The mk 41 is your best bet. Shotguns fall apart in reverberant spaces. Bartek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconAudioLabs Posted May 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 Thanks for the input guys. I appreciate it. I did try my MK41 and it picked up about the same amount of reverb. Interesting but the Tram was the better take of the four tried (416, CMIT, MK41). Kinda has me puzzled as it's a little out of convention, but hey, sound is it's own animal and so whatever works. Anyone know if there are roll up screens (like used in front of a film projector) that contain a cloth green screen colored material? Of the last 15 shoots I've been on, 11 have been green screen and I intend on tackling this beast. One tip that I'm looking into - you know those companies that sell those quick fold up and down trade show banners/stands? That seems to be the best way to go. They're light, portable, quick to set up, but are tricky to find the most convenient size and set-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted May 6, 2007 Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 Do a google search for "portable green screen" lots of info. I know you can get one from B&H photo but it's not a rollup it's more like a giant flexfill. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim apter Posted May 6, 2007 Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 the tram would be better because its a bit tighter on its pick up. have you tried a countryman B-6? They don't call it the "isomax" series for nothing. The short boom mic's should work better because of the considerably smaller rear lobes in their polar patterns - ie less bounce off the ceilings/opposite walls. Mixing a dry lav and a hyper/cardioid mic can give nice results. You can try deadening whatever wall is "off" camera - even if its a way away (usually the back wall/entrance side of the stage). Enough deadening can at least take some early reflections out of the equation. Great tip above that the mic can be in frame! Use that! If you get gripes from camera, Rycote have a newish series of wind gags called "smoothies" that come in chroma colours (green/blue) for easier keying out of the mic (even though this is stupid). good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 7, 2007 Report Share Posted May 7, 2007 Also, there are directional lavs (Lectro used to have them, as did Countryman)--worth a try. Otherwise I like the idea of the green fabric instead of the cyc. (Expensive though.) This seems like an example of "lens thinking" w/ regard to mics: ie, that people sometimes don't understand that a mic can't exclude part of the sound field it is in like a lens can exclude some things from the frame. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconAudioLabs Posted May 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2007 the tram would be better because its a bit tighter on its pick up. have you tried a countryman B-6? They don't call it the "isomax" series for nothing. Great tip above that the mic can be in frame! Use that! If you get gripes from camera, Rycote have a newish series of wind gags called "smoothies" that come in chroma colours (green/blue) for easier keying out of the mic (even though this is stupid). good luck Have to try my B6. I have the Blueberry and Greeny and used the green one. Tricky thing explaining to the DP that YES he CAN block the mic out. Great info guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted May 7, 2007 Report Share Posted May 7, 2007 If the DP doesn't know you can have the mic in frame as long as it doesn't cross in front of any elements, then he/she should not have been hired for a vfx shot. There should at least be a vfx supervisor there, and he/she can let the appropriate people know it's okay. And regarding directional lavs, I have heard the countryman one and I think it's awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted May 7, 2007 Report Share Posted May 7, 2007 I often use B6 in studio shoots to isolate the voice from the 'verb. Also use it alot in the corporate world of noisy offices or even exteriers where a sanken struggles and director insists... I'd rather use a boom mic if possible , but often due to the nature of physics the B6 has to be used. (mainly because I've found the countryman B6 to be the best lav mic for isolating the voice from the background) Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfisk Posted May 7, 2007 Report Share Posted May 7, 2007 Most stuff done on green stages is looped, as far as I can tell, just because the stages sound bad, and there is all kinds of equipment running at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 7, 2007 Report Share Posted May 7, 2007 As was also said (and bears repeating) they can easily garbage matte out a mic close to the actor in the shot in about the time it took me to type this. That should help alot. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconAudioLabs Posted May 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2007 Most stuff done on green stages is looped, as far as I can tell, just because the stages sound bad, and there is all kinds of equipment running at the same time. Yep, I'm heading towards ADR'ing the talent. As for the VFX - fffft it's hopeless. For example, he refused to take time-code, and now doesn't remember me insisting, so today I'm re-printing my receipt tags to include "time-code offered - time-code accepted - time-code refused". <sigh> The audio is not so bad at all actually (but when it's not absolutely perfect I must make it work, so it'll prolly be looped/adr'd). I sneakally attached an MP3. Just download it and change the "T25 Tram D2.doc" extension at the end of the file name, to: "T25 Tram D2.mp3". It's only like 148K so the admins, hopefully, won't get mad. : ) T25_Tram_D2.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconAudioLabs Posted May 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2007 As was also said (and bears repeating) they can easily garbage matte out a mic close to the actor in the shot in about the time it took me to type this. That should help alot. Philip Perkins Yep, I know, that's why I bought the blue and green berry, and I told them but they didn't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptalsky Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 Interesting thought about the trade show banner types of stands. You can go to: http://www.smartexhibits.com They have the free-standing banner stands for reasonable prices. It'd be interesting to do one in pure chroma green. (BTW, I don't have any ties to Smart Exhibits, but I have purchased booth properties and banner stands from them numerous times and have always been very happy with the products they produce.) Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconAudioLabs Posted May 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 Thanks guys for all the info. Really. We gotta start harrassing these trade show banner folks into making a chroma key green clothy material. That, simply, has to be cheaper than making the printed banners w/ crap logos and such. These things are light (I have one) and usually come with a carry bag. Be great if I had, like, four or five in chroma green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieSound Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 Even though the occasional DP or Director doesn't want the boom in frame on green screen shots, I always try and fight to get it in there. The ADR factor also depends on what B/G their putting in. If it's an dry exterior, a verby track is probably gonna get looped. If it's a more verby B/G, they just may keep the production track. Another factor is how loud the talent get. If they can cheat their volume down on loud passages while still having it still work for the Director, that'll cut down on verb. Using a boom + lav is very good way to go. Jamie scarpuzza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bellware Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 I've been using an Auralex Xpander on the back of boom mics whenever we want to "dry up" the sound a little bit. The foam doesn't seem to adversely affect the response of the microphone and seems to work pretty well in many "live" rooms. http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=XPANDERSET I've heard that some people will take the "nose" off a zeppelin -- using the zeppelin itself to absorb some sound energy coming from the rear, that's why I thought of the Auralex (which I use in my VO booth to help dry up its sound too.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconAudioLabs Posted May 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 I've been using an Auralex Xpander on the back of boom mics whenever we want to "dry up" the sound a little bit. The foam doesn't seem to adversely affect the response of the microphone and seems to work pretty well in many "live" rooms. http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=XPANDERSET I've heard that some people will take the "nose" off a zeppelin -- using the zeppelin itself to absorb some sound energy coming from the rear, that's why I thought of the Auralex (which I use in my VO booth to help dry up its sound too.) Re - Auralex, yep got one and modified it, see enclosed. Glued the two wedges on the top and bottom. The way it comes is you have to use either the one big wedge (the one shaped like the bowtie) or the other two smaller wedges, so I rigged it as shown. Works great! The tip about the zeppelin with the nose off is a fantastic one, don't know why I didn't think of that one myslef. I'm off right now to Musson (film studio supplies) to get some more chroma green and maybe a layer of vinyl to shield around the sides and back. Thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bellware Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Wow, that's quite an Auralex rig. I've gotten funny looks from the AD just with the triangle! The zeppelin trick doesn't sound as good as the Auralex in my experience, but if you need something quick and dirty, it'll do it for you. Best, Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Re - Auralex, yep got one and modified it, see enclosed. Glued the two wedges on the top and bottom. The way it comes is you have to use either the one big wedge (the one shaped like the bowtie) or the other two smaller wedges, so I rigged it as shown. Works great! That is one wild rig! It makes perfect sense that this could be quit effective because you are mechanically/acoustically affecting the nature of the sound coming into the back of the mic. For plant mics placed in particularly bad places (hard surfaces all around) we often do something similar with foam or cloth but obviously much less elaborate. Thanks for posting that. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconAudioLabs Posted May 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Be nice if the Auralex folks would make it a bit more like what I did to address the issue we're talking about. I mean, I'm ready to glue more of the reamaining little wedges around it too. I shouldn't have to be glueing it. So, anybody who has a moment or two, send them an email, bug 'em to make something similar to mine with even more baffles and in chroma green. You can send 'em my picture. Of course I'm going to do this too. Sometimes all it takes is a few emails or so to make things happen. Oh, and it should be able to be broken down for easier transport too. Right now I have have to move mine as it is and hope nothing tears it. Their email is appsupport@auralex.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 I don't know where this fits... maybe nowhere, but I found this to be an interesting picture. Appeared in the recent issue of EQ Magazine where someone with a home studio setup wanted to record some dry vocals. I guess it worked, sort of. - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 That's pretty much how I recorded a "pipa" player in a noisy and boomy hotel room in Beijing. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 last year I did some work for the fire dept and ended up surrounding an officer with jackets on LX stands for a voice over at a local station. Got some strange looks though while setting it up... Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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